Ideas for Ski Area Improvements

snoloco wrote

I'm fine with extras where you get more of something that you already have to pay for, but don't affect the experience for others much, if at all.  Paid First Tracks on select terrain, yes, line cutting, no.  When you cut the line, you make everyone else in line wait one chair longer.  If you pay for First Tracks, you get to ski early and track out 2 sections before the public.  The people who didn't pay for First Tracks still get first tracks on all the sections not used by those who did.

Skimore:  On powder days, it would most certainly sell out.  You don't have to hike or stand in line to get the goods.  Steamboat offers something similar and it does sell out on powder days.  They could start offering valet parking too.  It doesn't affect those who don't pay because they park the cars remotely instead of taking the close parking spaces.  Imagine driving up the access road and passing Lot H and seeing that every car there is a Mercedes or BMW.

There are so many chairs, do you think anyone would really mind? Maybe the cutters could wear a really bright vest so everyone would know that they were special and to give them room.

I like the valet idea, that could employ a few extra folks in a hard luck area. And the thing is, since the valet is only really busy in the morning and afternoon, you could upsell them on car washes and detailing and all that. Who wants to get in a nasty car for a long ride home? Having someone chuck the coffee cups and vaccum out the mud would definitely be worth an extra $50.

Ok, I'm trying to be positive but I just can't do it.

NO FIRST TRACKS! BAD IDEA! BAD SNO!

Sno, it's not that hard to calculate electric bill if you know the HP of the lifts. You could probably figure this out easily on Skilifts.Org. Then you take that number, and multiply it times 745.7 (the watt-HP constant) and then divide by 1,000 to get Kilowatts. (Kw) Then find out what the price per Kilowatt Hour is in Johnsburg, and multiply times the KW you come up with, and that is how much electricity will cost for 1 hour. And that is also assuming that every chair is full, and the lift is running at full speed. It won't be that busy, so you can probably cut that number in half.

This is a good little procedure to know that way I (and other ski area managers) can now exactly what it is going to cost to make snow, and run lifts

And that leads me to think of something even more interesting. The PPKWH is much lower off business hours, and once you start drawing, you are locked in at that price until you shut down. It's hard to explain, but basically if you are drawing 100 Kw and you start at 6 AM, you will pay the off business hour price until you drop below 100 Kw. That will never happen because as the day goes on, the mountain will only be drawing more power. Any power added later in the day however will be charged full price. This price difference is due to the demand across the entire grid which costs the power company more money during the middle of the day.

My only point is that getting the lifts started early may actually save money on electric bills. The reality is that employees are way more expensive than electricity in this case.

I like the idea though. When I'm an old rich guy, I will definitely want to start my day off like this. Actually would want to now, but I can buy like 30 feet of pipe for $45

snoloco wrote

They're already opening at some point anyways, so the costs to open 3 lifts 45 minutes early would only be the extra cost of running them for that amount of time longer and paying the lifties that much longer.  I figure you only need 1 ticket checker at the gondola, someone to group/load, plus someone in the bottom and top shacks, and that's what is needed early, the rest of the crew comes for public opening.  I believe Topridge and Straightbrook run with 3 lifties each, so that's a total of 10 lifties needed early.  Figuring they're paid 10 dollars an hour, that's 75 dollars in extra pay needed.  That is paid for in 2 tickets.  Then there's whatever it costs to run the lifts for that time.  That's not very easy to calculate, but let's say it's 300 dollars extra in electrical costs for that period of time.  That's 375 dollars for the skiing part of it, which can be paid for in 9 tickets.  Not sure how much running a high-profit restaurant at a ski lodge would cost them for an extra 45 minutes.  Breakfast would be served at public opening as well, but would cost extra, while it would be included for First tracks.  I'd think it would break even if they sold 50 First Tracks tickets and the rest pocketed.

For me, I'd totally pay for first tracks if it was handled this way, especially on a powder day.  I'm at the ski area for opening anyways, and I have to have breakfast at some point.  Instead of taking time to have it before leaving for the ski area, just get dressed and leave and have it at the ski area.  It also gets you out of the base area early, which gets crowded on powder days.  I'd load the gondola early, ski some runs on the upper mountain, hopefully some fresh powder, and then have a big breakfast around 9:30-10.  Then I'd be able to ski straight through lunch till around 2 and I'd get a snack then to hold me till dinner.  I'd hit every section, eventually ending by taking some laps on the ADK Express.

Is the food going to cook it self? Here is an idea - all you can cook is all you can eat? You can use that one if you want - gratis.

I did fresh tracks at Whistler.  First 600 people. 19 bucks. Went up the gondola. Had a great buffet. At 8:15 they rang the bell and you could go ski. It's kind funny hearing skiers complaining about it catering to the rich. I don't know many people on welfare that ski. I guess it's the me me me.  

Ethan Snow wrote

And that leads me to think of something even more interesting. The PPKWH is much lower off business hours, and once you start drawing, you are locked in at that price until you shut down. It's hard to explain, but basically if you are drawing 100 Kw and you start at 6 AM, you will pay the off business hour price until you drop below 100 Kw.

That's interesting.  Never thought of it.

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Here you go.
http://www.tetongravity.com/story/news/donald-trump-to-build-international-ski-resort-on-sensitive-wildlife-habita

After I finish the homogenization maybe some of you will start a protest and give out hats saying "Make Gore Great Again" and "Say No to the Sno".

That Trump ski area is actually a mirror image of a portion of Okemo.  Look closely at both trail maps and you'll see.

My master plan for Killington.

I'll do upgrades by section:

Ramshead:  The Ramshead HSQ needs to be a 6-pack and go back to the true summit.  The abandoned trails would be widened to accommodate the additional skiers.  There is also the potential to add additional trails to expand intermediate terrain, which Killington could use more of.

Snowdon:  The Snowdon Quad needs to be a HSQ, which would be a relocation of the Ramshead HSQ.  Many trail intersections need to be eliminated as I will outline below.

Where Mouse Trap merges into Chute and Lower Bunny Buster splits off, add a fence that will allow skiers to take one side of Mouse Trap to get to K1 Base and the other side to get to the Snowdon HSQ or Ramshead.  You would not be able to access Lower Bunny Buster from Chute and it would just be part of Mouse Trap.  Lower Mouse Run would have snowmaking added and be the route to K1 base from Chute.  Great Northern would be fenced off from Chute at this location.

Where Great Northern crosses Chute at the lower point, Chute would be made a little narrower and a tunnel under it added for Great Northern.  There would be a big sign where Great Northern intersects with Caper that directs people wishing to access K1 base or the Snowdon Triple to Great Northern, and those wishing to access the Snowdon HSQ or Ramshead Base to Caper.  

Where Great Northern crosses Chute at the upper point just below the bottom of the Poma, a tunnel would be added for Great Northern to cross under chute, the trail would be widened slightly to allow skiers from Great Northern to access Chute, but eliminate direct cross trail traffic.  Some grading work at the top is also needed to eliminate the skate to get to the North Ridge and Canyon lifts.

K1/Canyon/North Ridge:  Great Northern currently bisects the entire Canyon/North Ridge trail section, making the skiing pretty disjointed.  Reroute Great Northern around the back of Killington Peak and sign it as the main/easier route.  The current route would only be a crossover for skiers to access the Canyon and North Ridge trails, so much cross trail traffic would be eliminated.  To allow traffic from the Peak Lodge to use the new route, have a tunnel under the current route and have a connector off Juggernaut to the new trail.  

The North Ridge Triple is a critical lift for early season skiing and is getting up there in age.  Replace with a fixed grip quad.  The triple would be parted out to keep the Snowdon Triple running (the exact same lift model), and they could also send some parts to Magic, as they have a similar lift as well.

Bear/South Side of Skye Peak/South Ridge:  South Ridge needs a lift!!  Take the Snowdon Quad and reinstall it on the South Ridge Triple return line.  This would allow skiers to get out of Bear Mountain Base using the Bear Quad and would pull a lot of traffic away from the Skye Peak Express, which often experiences long lines.  Add snowmaking to Solitude and Sasafrass so that there is a long, high elevation beginner run on the South Ridge.  Adding Snowmaking to Juggernaut is impractical due to length and difficulty to access.  

To improve skier flow, whenever the Bear Quad is running, close all crossovers to Outer Limits, Upper Wildfire, and Devil's Fiddle.  This would reduce cross trail traffic and allow the Bear Quad to be better utilized.

Needle's Eye/Superstar:  Do some grading at the top of the Superstar lift to allow for the glacier to be built without creating an uphill skate to get to Skyelark.  This would significantly reduce congestion in the area near the top of the Skye Peak Express.

Snowshed:  To reduce the need for people to speed through both base areas, add magic carpets going both directions in the tunnel, sort of like moving walkways at airports.

Pico:  It needs to be connected to Killington.  It is so underutilized and only survives with a big subsidy from Killington.  There is a ton of great terrain over there, including intermediate terrain, which Killington needs a bit more of.  They would also get some snowmaking improvements out of this.  Add a new lift/trail section on the eastern exposure of Pico Peak, served by a fixed grip quad.  Cut a long connector trail to the bottom of this lift from the top of Ramshead, which allows for terrain there to be expanded too.  The existing trail from Pico to Killington needs an extra section added to connect with Ramshead Base.  There is potential to add another lift (likely a triple) near the top of Ramshead to allow skiers from the Snowdon lifts to access the summit of Ramshead without going through the base.  It also allows skiers from Pico to go to the summit of Ramshead instead of the bottom.  This allows access to the K1 and Snowdon lifts.  To access Superstar, Skyeship Stage 2, or Needle's Eye lifts, it's better to go to the bottom and take a Snowshed lift to cross over.

I'd do it in three phases.  First, the new trails from the summit of Pico are added, immediately getting snowmaking.  Second, the Pico side lift goes in, the connecting trails are completed and with snowmaking added.  One or two more trails in the new section should also get snowmaking.  Third, the remaining trails get snowmaking, and the Ramshead side lift added if the new Ramshead 6-pack gets swamped by skiers comming off the interconnect.  The additional Ramshead trails could be cut and receive snowmaking during any of the three years.

Operational changes in terms of lifts running each day.

Lifts operating daily:  K1 Gondola, Snowdon Express, Superstar Express, Ramshead Express, Snowshed Express, Skyeship Gondola, Skye Peak Express, Sunrise Triple, Summit Express, Golden Express, Little Pico Triple, Knomes Knoll Triple, Pico Interconnect Quad.

Lifts that alternate days Monday-Thursday and operate on all Fridays and weekends:  Bear Quad and South Ridge Quad, Canyon Quad and North Ridge Quad.

Lifts that operate weekends only, full hours:  Needle's Eye Express, Northbrook Quad, Bonanza Double, Outpost Double, Upper Ramshead Triple.

Lifts that operate on weekends only, hours as needed:  Snowdon Triple, Snowdon Poma, Snowshed Doubles.

Early/Late season changes:  North Ridge Quad runs daily until the Canyon Quad and Snowdon Express both open, then it assumes it's normal hours.  When Skyeship Base is closed both stages of the Skyeship Gondola are closed.  The Needle's Eye Express runs daily during these times.  The Snowdon Triple may operate in place of the Snowdon Express as the base of the Snowdon Express is lower and not as easy to cover early or late season.

Snowdon trail improvements.  Fences in orange, tunnels in purple, areas to be widened shaded in white.




New Great Northern route.


Peak Lodge connector trails.


New summit trails at Pico.


New lift and trails on the eastern exposure of Pico.


New Ramshead trails without upper lift.


Upper Ramshead lift added.

What do you figure is the budget for this?

I'd make an educated guess that 30 million over 5 years would get it done.  Not unreasonable for a mountain of that size.

Came up with some ideas to improve skier flow around Belleayre.

The terrain from the Overlook Lodge to the Superchief lift was very poorly designed.  Congestion around the lodge essentially cuts the run in half, and the lower portion is just a crowded flat run-out where you aren't doing anything but trying to get to the lift.

I'd start by rerouting Roaring Brook.  Right now, that trail returns you to the Overlook Lodge, and crosses Winisook, Tongora, and Belleayre Run in the process.  Ashokan branches off Roaring Brook before any of these intersections and goes down to the Superchief.  The Ashokan trail name would be discontinued, and that run would be signed as Roaring Brook.  The portion of Roaring Brook from Ashokan to the Overlook Lodge would be signed as Overlook Crossover and would only be used to reach the lodge.

Where Overlook Crossover would cross Tongora, Winisook, and Belleayre Run, I would add bridge/tunnel crossovers to those.  That way those three runs could flow much better down to the lift instead of having to worry about crossing a busy trail.  All 3 runs would also have an "exit ramp" onto Overlook Crossover to allow skiers to access the lodge.  Yes, I know it makes the skiing into something that resembles driving down an interstate, but it's better than having skiing resemble driving in Manhattan without the traffic lights working.

This picture shows all the improvements in this location.  Orange is where fences would be placed.  Some would be able to be removed in the event of lift closures, or during late season midweek days when not all lifts were running.  Blue represents the main trail routes down to the Superchief.  White represents the routes from each trail to the Overlook Lodge.  Purple represents where trails would cross via a bridge and tunnel.  Trees would be removed from the area that is shaded white, and the deck of the lodge would be relocated to the side of the lodge facing the lower mountain to allow more room for skiers to pass.



Further up the mountain, I'd close Howe's Highway beyond Belleayre Run to prevent people from crossing that trail.  I'd put in bridges for Winisook and Tongora to cross the portion to Belleayre Run and "exit ramps" to those trails from it, allowing intermediate skiers to access them from Onondaga.



On the other side of the mountain, I'd improve skier flow in and out of the Tomahawk area.  The main route to that side is Tomahawk Crossing, and the main route out is Expressway.  Expressway would be truncated from Dot Nebel to Seneca to reduce cross trail traffic.  Needs to be a bridge and tunnel where it crosses Tomahawk crossing.  I would also cut off the portion of Esopus below Tomahawk Crossing and have a tunnel for Pepacton to go under Expressway.  Peekamoose would merge into Tomahawk Crossing right where it would cross over or under Expressway.  With this, Esopus, Peekamoose, and Pepacton would lose access to Expressway, but they are Tomahawk trails, and it would be easy to sign Seneca as the only access to the Overlook Lodge from Tomahawk.  Orange is fences, purple is bridges/tunnels, and the trees would be removed from the shaded white area.