Ideas for Ski Area Improvements

As I can recall, Killington has always had great snowmaking and grooming.  What they have not spent any money on is upgrading the lifts that need it, and have been kicking the can down the road with maintenance, which is why the South Ridge Triple wasn't replaced.  Any operator that had a clue how to do maintenance wouldn't have let that lift die to the point that it needed to be retired and would have planned to replace it by the time it did give out.

Connectivity between mountain areas is a good thing, but tons of trail intersections are not.  Great Northern is a good example of this.  They tried to make it the main route off the K1 Gondola, yet it cuts the North Ridge and Snowdon trail sections in half.  I have a Google earth trail map of the entire mountain, so I'll show a way to correct it soon.

I think they over did it with trying to make it so there were enough green runs so all abilities could ski off of most of the lifts and connect most of the areas. It's a cluster f--k and there are way too many catwalks cutting through fall line trails messing up the quality of skiing there.

If you know the area really well like a 70+ day a season 10+ year local I'm sure it can work but for a visiting skier the place doesn't induce flow at all. The majority of their target market probably doesn't get that anyways though.

Stowe used to pride themselves on how there trails were long uninterrupted fall line trails. The count was at around 45 for years since I could remember until years ago they decided to rename trails as upper/lower, a cheap and sleazy move imo. It's about the quality not the quantity but unfortunately the average consumer is too dumb to get that so they succumbed to playing with the numbers.

Was going to post one of these upgrade lists for Mount Snow, when I found out that they're already moving toward achieving my perfect model.  They're doing the West Lake snowmaking reservoir project in time for next season.  This will double their water supply and firepower.  This is the first step toward adding snowmaking to 100% of their over 500 acres of skiable terrain (which is their goal).  As a passholder to their now sister resort, Hunter Mountain, I'll be more than happy to help fund this project.  The only lift upgrades I could see happening are installing a HSQ on the Sunbrook section.  That is currently their longest fixed main fixed grip lift.  Otherwise, they have a huge lift capacity, and the trail acreage to support it.  The two triples on the North Face seldom have a line and are well suited to the terrain on that section, so no HSQ needed there.

Came up with a case of "musical ski lifts" that would complete a bunch of upgrades that are needed all over the place.

Mount Snow replaces the Sunbrook Quad with a HSQ and relocates the fixed grip to replace the Borvig double double at Attitash.  Get rid of another old, inneficient, and unsafe lift.  

Attitash replaces the Summit triple with a HSQ and sells the triple to Killington to add a new South Ridge lift.

I've never skied Sugarloaf, but they definitely need some lift upgrades.  The Superquad should be upgraded to a 6-pack and be called the Super6.  The quad gets relocated to replace the West Mountain Double, the longest fixed grip on the mountain.  Since that lift doesn't need much capacity, you don't need to run as many chairs, so some can be sold off.  Steamboat has the Pony Express which uses the same chairs and they want to add chairs and increase capacity from 1200 to 1800 an hour.  This would require 27 chairs to do.

Love when you can move lifts around so that more upgrades get done for less money.  One man's trash is another man's treasure they say.

OMG, why doesn't anyone care about improving their skiing experience.  Either way, maybe you will care if it's about Whiteface.

Whiteface has the most vertical in the east and some high elevation terrain that I don't feel is always taken advantage of.  I'd say that this should be used to their advantage and they should become one of the early/late season players.

To do this, first the following upgrades need to take place.  Add a third trail to Lookout Mountain and convert Rand's Last Stand to a trail which allows for a connection to the summit without going down and around through LWF.  Many snowmaking upgrades also need to happen to open much more terrain a lot quicker.  

As Z said a while back, Whiteface has a rather low base elevation of 1,100 feet, which isn't always easy to cover early in the season.  However, there are plenty of lifts that only run in higher elevations and there's a gondola to download on.  The early season setup would be to blow snow on 2 routes to start the season off.  Excelsior to Upper Valley, and Approach to Mountain Run.  The gondola would be used to upload and download and the skiing would be off the Little Whiteface Double.  Start blowing up there as soon as conditions permit and keep expanding upper mountain terrain as conditions permit moving onto Essex and Lower Northway, plus Wilderness, Mackenzie and basically everything on Little Whiteface.  Hopefully they'd open in early to mid November.

Once weather permits snowmaking at the base, that can be covered quickly.  Open Lower Valley, Boreen, and beginner terrain as soon as conditions allow.  This would end gondola downloading and bring the Facelift and Bear Double online.  This should happen by Thanksgiving.  Once those are done, move into the terrain park and racing terrain, bringing the Freeway lift online.

By mid-December, the summit and Bear Den Mountain should be on the priority list.  Open 2 routes off the summit, Paron's Run and Skyward to Victoria.  Bear Den Mountain is pretty flat and not too rocky, so a couple days of snowmaking in there should be able to open just about everything.  Now you've opened every lift except Lookout and the Mountain Run chair.

After the Summit and Bear Den Mountain are done, Lookout is the next priority just in time for the holidays.  Open for experts only at first with Hoyt's and Wilmington trail to Lookout Below.  Since Rand's Last Stand would be converted to a trail, it opens with Hoyt's connecting the Lookout and Summit lifts.  Then open Wilmington Trail to the base and the new trail I mentioned earlier.  

Once the holidays have arrived, they have all the lifts open and at least a few trails off each lift.  If it's a good year, they can probably achieve this well before Christmas and have 100% of snowmaking terrain open for the holidays, and that would be really impressive and bring many people to Whiteface/Lake Placid.

Now they'd also be a late season player too.

As February comes, start building base depth on all upper mountain terrain, which means everything that one can lap off the LWF, Summit, and Lookout lifts.  As early April comes, close down all lower mountain lifts except the gondola which provides access in.  Keep skiing on the upper mountain with a trail to the base as long as conditions allow.  When that trail rots out, put up signs saying "Walking or gondola downloading required".  Hopefully top to bottom skiing would last into mid April.  Upper mountain skiing would last into early May.

snoloco wrote

OMG, why doesn't anyone care about improving their skiing experience.

How do you come to this conclusion?

No one responded.  Figured it was the mountains that were in my previous post that no one really cared about.

 Some of your ideas are great. Everytime I approach Whiteface from the east, I am struck by how majestic it is. I like the idea of ORDA playing with their snowmaking a bit and marketing Whiteface as early/late option.

I think that Whiteface has huge potential to be one of the major spring players.  Lake Placid is never empty, so there's always a customer base that would be able to ski.  They just need more snowmaking to build up the base depth on a lot of terrain.  IMO, the best spring mountains are the ones that keep the most terrain open the latest.  My plan calls for 4 lifts to run (Gondola, LWF, Summit, Lookout) and all the trails open that can be lapped off those 3 chairs.  That's a ton of really awesome terrain.  Excelsior, Paron's Run, Wilmington-Lookout Below, Approach, and Mountain Run would be groomed daily, the rest would only be groomed in the event of a freeze thaw or to move snow around to keep coverage full.  Plenty of spring bumps to enjoy.  Also, be sure to have a BBQ at the Midstation deck with a DJ or even live music.  Keep the vibe festive.

snoloco wrote

No one responded.

Get used to that

Came up with these ideas for Windham.

Replace the F-Lift triple (long slow one next to the HSQ) with a 6-pack bubble chair with heated seats.  

Increase night skiing to full acreage.  It's close enough to NYC and Albany areas for this to work, plus my ideas below will bring in even more people.

Install cabriolet lift from the parking lot across the street to the lodge.  Add escalators where the stairs are that go from the lower to upper levels of the lodge.  Allow all parking to be moved to the other side of the street to make room for what I'm listing below.

Develop what used to be the parking lot into a fabricated village to increase the bed base (making full night skiing more worthwhile).  I also think that Windham would be a good fit for an indoor waterpark.  They're already a bit of an upscale resort that caters to families, and they're close to a large population center.  They also seem to be trying to expand non-skiing activities already.  Why not go all in and build one of the largest out there.  Overshadow the ones that Jay Peak and Camelback added.  The largest in the world is 710,000 square feet, which I don't think they have the space for.  Camelback's is 125,000 and the largest one in North America is 225,000.  I'd say 250,000 to 300,000 sounds about right.  Trying to figure out what the exact dimensions would be on Google Earth.

I've got to think the prevailing  Windham crowd would consider a water park to be gauche.  The thing that prevents me from going to Windham more often is that their pricing doesn't match their value in my mind. Can ski equal or better terrain in the 3 other Cats  areas for a fraction of the cost. If I want to eat good sushi, I'll just stay in my 'hood.  

I like your brainstorming though, it reminds me of watching my son when he used to play the ski resort computer game as a kid.  I dig your enthusiasm for the sport.

snoloco wrote

Came up with these ideas for Windham.

Replace the F-Lift tripe (long slow one next to the HSQ) with a 6-pack bubble chair with heated seats.  

Increase night skiing to full acreage.  It's close enough to NYC and Albany areas for this to work, plus my ideas below will bring in even more people.

Install cabriolet lift from the parking lot across the street to the lodge.  Add escalators where the stairs are that go from the lower to upper levels of the lodge.  Allow all parking to be moved to the other side of the street to make room for what I'm listing below.

Develop what used to be the parking lot into a fabricated village to increase the bed base (making full night skiing more worthwhile).  I also think that Windham would be a good fit for an indoor waterpark.  They're already a bit of an upscale resort that caters to families, and they're close to a large population center.  They also seem to be trying to expand non-skiing activities already.  Why not go all in and build one of the largest out there.  Overshadow the ones that Jay Peak and Camelback added.  The largest in the world is 710,000 square feet, which I don't think they have the space for.  Camelback's is 125,000 and the largest one in North America is 225,000.  I'd say 250,000 to 300,000 sounds about right.  Trying to figure out what the exact dimensions would be on Google Earth.

Can the foot rest be made of solid gold? gold plated? Can that be heated as well?

Why don't we encapsulate the whole mountain and refrigerate it. Install an overhead snow making system and we can ski 24-7 365 days a year.

No thanks, I like the view off the top of the mountain and being outside.  My idea for the waterpark allows for an activity that will bring in money year round.  Personally, I'd rather be skiing than visit an indoor waterpark.  As many of Windham's current customers are families, an indoor waterpark would be perfect.  The footrests on the new bubble chair would not be heated or solid gold.  A heated bubble chair is already luxurious enough.  One of their biggest problems is the distance of the parking lot from the lifts and a Cabriolet would solve all these problems and make parking access one of the best in the east.

snoloco wrote

The footrests on the new bubble chair would not be heated or solid gold.

Well that's a relief.

You seem to want to homogenize all ski areas.  That doesn't mean make them gay friendly, which would be a lot better than your ideas.

billyymc wrote

  That doesn't mean make them gay friendly, which would be a lot better than your ideas.

What does that have to do with upgrading lifts, lodging and diversifying activities?  Let's not bring politics into this.  As far as I know, anyone is welcome to visit any ski area, buy a lift ticket, ride the lifts, and ski the terrain.

snoloco wrote

billyymc wrote

  That doesn't mean make them gay friendly, which would be a lot better than your ideas.

What does that have to do with upgrading lifts, lodging and diversifying activities?  Let's not bring politics into this.  As far as I know, anyone is welcome to visit any ski area, buy a lift ticket, ride the lifts, and ski the terrain.

Why does every resort need to be improved in exactly the same way? For what competitive advantage?

snoloco wrote

a Cabriolet

You left out everyone's own mtn host who actually skis down the hill for you while you stay warm in the lodge