Jumbo Glacier Resort

I watched this on Netflix last night

Jumbo Glacier Resort

I am opposed to this... What is your opinion on this development?

I'm sure that if it were built it would be an amazing place to ski.

My thoughts though are with so many ski resorts struggling to make a profit, climate issues, and a fading market do we really need to create more ski resorts? I don't think so. Just take a look at Revelstoke or Kicking Horse. They haven't exactly had great success.

It just seems wasteful to me. Why not just continue to develop and improve the already existing ski areas and leave places like Jumbo alone.

So what should we do?  Ban the construction of new ski areas?  That sounds like such a great idea.  I guess Ethan Snow shouldn't have opened Woodstream then.  If it's got a good chance of being profitable, then why not go for it and build it.  More competition is better for the consumer, it leads to lower prices, better quality, and new innovations.

snoloco wrote

So what should we do?  Ban the construction of new ski areas?  That sounds like such a great idea.  I guess Ethan Snow shouldn't have opened Woodstream then.  If it's got a good chance of being profitable, then why not go for it and build it.  More competition is better for the consumer, it leads to lower prices, better quality, and new innovations.

To be honest, I thought you would oppose this because they wouldn't need a massive snowmaking system.

Seriously, tell me what happens if it's not profitable?  As RA stated, there were similar grand plans for Revelstoke and KHMR, and the success of these areas have fallen well short of the initial projections.  The studies that were done indicated that it would not bring new skiers into the market (market saturation)... it would simply cannibalize the other areas.  What happens if this causes 3 of the 17 other areas in the market to go bankrupt? IMO: That would hurt the consumer.

Tell me how this impacts the local grizzly population? or do they not matter in your eyes?

 

It looks like there are estimations of 2 grizzlies in a previously logged out valley. Jumbo is hardly the pristine area that the opponents are leading us to believe. There have been 24 years of environmental study before it was approved. Of course the other resorts don't want it, it will be better than what they are selling. There are grizzlies through out the Kootenays including the other resorts.

What does the success of Revelstoke and KH have to do with Jumbo? The owners of those 2 places have made some shaky decisions and are not spending money to improve those resorts. That is why they are not meeting expectations. I guess bad businesses should be rewarded just for being first.

the grizz will be fine... it's the people who should be careful.

x10003q wrote

It looks like there are estimations of 2 grizzlies in a preciously logged out valley.

What is your source for this?  I found a regional estimate of about 600

Bruce Kirby wrote

Along with several colleagues, Proctor was instrumental in developing hair-snagging DNA techniques, the new gold standard in bear research, and today is on the eve of publishing two major peer-reviewed papers. The first, a monograph which analyzes DNA from 3,100 bears stretching from Yellowstone, through Alberta and B.C., all the way to the Yukon, shows a series of small fragmented populations linked to a 600-strong core around Jumbo. These Purcell grizzlies are an “anchor” population, the southern-most unfractured population west of the Rockies, critical for providing stability to neighbouring, threatened populations.

Exploring the wild frontier of Jumbo Valley, B.C.

x10003q wrote

Of course the other resorts don't want it, it will be better than what they are selling.

I guess that depends on what you like... I'm not saying they would not offer a good product, but it certainly would not be to liking of everyone... especially people in the local community.  If they built it, and it bankrupted Whitewater, Kimberly, or Red, I would be pissed.

x10003q wrote

What does the success of Revelstoke and KH have to do with Jumbo?

I suspect that the vision for both was the same as with Jumbo... Let's create a giant footprint, and hope people come... With RMR, their visits have been 1/4 of the original estimates from 2003.  In general, Canadian skier visits have been declining over the past decade... Even if the management at KHMR and RMR had made better decisions (borrowed more money to build more infrastructure), market forces would still stifle their success.  

Looks intriguing, the big issue will be how difficult it is to get there. People won't want to drive past Banff or Lake Louise.

PeeTex wrote

Looks intriguing, the big issue will be how difficult it is to get there. People won't want to drive past Banff or Lake Louise.

Yup, not close to anything.

In defense of x10003q I am firm believer that we need to question the enviro folks claims on the effects on wildlife for rec projects. Even though I don't think we need to use valuable resources for more ski areas that I think are likely going to not be worth the initial investments doesn't mean I'm right.

I have seen it here with the trail proposals we are making for this area, they will lie lie and lie with dramatic claims that appeal to our emotional side without any scientific reality.

I'm just saying that everything needs to be approached with mature critical thinking. I still don't think that we need more ski areas but some of the arguments against my opinions made right here on this thread are worth hearing imo.

PeeTex wrote

Looks intriguing, the big issue will be how difficult it is to get there. People won't want to drive past Banff or Lake Louise.

 
I was thinking the same. You would pass Panorama on your way there, I don't think Panorama is exceptionally successful but I can't say how or where that thought has been developed. Hmmm?????

According to this 1998 study submitted Nov, 1999, they estimated an unbounded population of 45 grizzly bears in an area of 1650 square kilometers in the Central Purcell study area around Jumbo. They actually took hair samples of 33 bears including only 2 females in the Jumbo watershed drainage area of 175 sq kilometers.

Jumbo Grizzly Bear Study for Jumbo

I have not yet been to either Kicking Horse or Revelstoke. Reviews have been uneven at best. KH clearly has a 2 tier mountain with mostly expert stuff at the top and all levels of trails at the bottom, yet they installed a gondola to serve the entire vertical. The other lifts at the bottom are a fixed grip quad and a double. There does not seem to be enough blue terrain. For experts, 3 of the 4 bowls at the top require you to ski all the way to the bottom to get back up to the top. Snowfall ranges from 100" at the bottom to 275" at the top. In a bad snow year, the bottom can be a mess by the beginning of March.

Revelstoke is 4.5 hours west of Calgary and 2 hours from Kelowna International. They have had some development issues, too. Revelstoke does get a ton of snow.

Access to Jumbo is not good either. However, it is an hour up the road from Panorama.

Well I'm sticking with lets not F- it up with a ski resort. Enough is enough. I don't feel right about destroying another area of critical griz habitat just so rich people can strap wooden planks to their feet and slide around on snow.

x10003q wrote

Jumbo Grizzly Bear Study for Jumbo

I think this is a matter of interpretation... we both have the same source...

Mike Proctor was one of the biologists in the documentary that was opposing the resort development.  He was co-author of the study from your link and quoted in the article from my link.

 

If you put a gondola up this mountain, and there really truly are people coming from around the world, how long is the snow really going to last? This doesn't seem like a resort type mountain to me, but I suppose that could change. And again, not a good location for tourism. The sad truth is that there is little business to do on skiing alone. You must have real estate. Somehow I don't see that happening. The concept is interesting though. I don't really have an opinion, but I am interested in seeing how this plays out.

snoloco wrote

So what should we do?  Ban the construction of new ski areas?  That sounds like such a great idea.  I guess Ethan Snow shouldn't have opened Woodstream then.  If it's got a good chance of being profitable, then why not go for it and build it.  More competition is better for the consumer, it leads to lower prices, better quality, and new innovations.

It would destroy prime grizzly bear breeding habitat and excelerate the demise of this apex predator.  The Native peoples of this region hold the valley as sacred with centuries old bonds to their heritage.  They do not want it developed.  

Leave Jumbo wild!  
 

ScottyJack wrote

snoloco wrote

So what should we do?  Ban the construction of new ski areas?  That sounds like such a great idea.  I guess Ethan Snow shouldn't have opened Woodstream then.  If it's got a good chance of being profitable, then why not go for it and build it.  More competition is better for the consumer, it leads to lower prices, better quality, and new innovations.

It would destroy prime grizzly bear breeding habitat and excelerate the demise of this apex predator.  The Native peoples of this region hold the valley as sacred with centuries old bonds to their heritage.  They do not want it developed.  

Leave Jumbo wild!  

If you want to ski it, spend the time, the effort and assess the risks.  It will be a far better experience than riding a lift.

Sno - your analogy makes no friggin' sense.  Sorry dude.  This is public land that would have to be leased from the Canadian government.

Plus, in the documentary, they outline the fact that there are like 5-6 other resorts that aren't building their economy.  Why destroy something beautiful and natural for the pleasure of others?  Or maybe for the legacy of one man?

Listen to the First Nation people, they know what's right.

http://unofficialnetworks.com/2016/06/jumbo-glacier-resort-has-officially-been-stopped

Now it's down to like 2000 areas only i have yet to go to.

Scotty

How would you feel if the APA decided that the Birds are more important than WF operating.   My guess is both the birds would find another of our 46 peaks and the Bears would move to the millions of undelevolped acres adjacent to Jumbo to breed.