Mad River Glen Should...

This is exactly what I meant. I don't have anything against MRG or that type of skiing, slower lifts, less grooming , no snowmaking, but imho having spoken to many MRG fans, there are some  who cop an attitude. God Bless you MRG skiers and I mean that. But it doesn't mean that the rest of us are some lesser breed, less tough, whatever. I always remember a conversation with an MRG guy who said "oh they are so nice about no snowboarders , the sign says "Thank You for Not Snowboarding"  sorry condescending isn't nice, I know this will p some people off. I don't really mean to but even if you look down your nose at us groomers please keep it to yourself. I assure you I think you tough guys are cool.

i aint no tough guy,just a woodchuck

Don't mean to prolong this [though I am] Woodchuck is your style , some of us don't have that style but still like to ski [or board]anyway  good for you , so there are more ways that MRG's Woodchucks to get your snow kicks, we respect yours, [believe me I'm not the only skier who thinks this way, just like Eastern Skiers get sick of Western braggers, we get sick of hearing about how tough certain skiers are] anyway Woodchuck old joke. In the World a Yankee is anyone from the USA, In the USA a Yankee is anyone from North of the Mason Dixon Line, North of Mason Dixon a Yankee is anyone from New England, In New England a Yankee is anyone from Vermont, In Vermont a Yankee is anyone who eats apple pie for breakfast.

Harvey44 wrote

We all want to believe that our the choices we've made in life are the right ones.  It's human nature.

I've found that some people do this by trying to prove to you that your life decisions were/are the wrong ones.

word...  

snobs suck whether it's skiing or anything else. They love themselves so much they bore the rest of us to death..

i thought in vt they liked the red sox and im really a bark eater

allow snowboarding. It's 2013, get with the program.

I don't get there as much as I used to and am not a shareholder...yet... but

GET THE ROPE!

Yes, there is wicked "madditude" up there now but you have to get past that and just enjoy the terrain.
I could grind on and on about the place and how it's changed since Betsy sold out to the coop.  But what
good does that do?

Oh but let me play...I hope it does no good because Mad River is as it was when Betsy had it...and if "sold out" is selling back to your skiers and not taking much more from American Ski Company when they still owned the Bush...so she could retire, is a bad thing...then maybe I'm wrong.  The vibe may have changed a little bit...Betsy is not out there every day with a big smile on her face, chatting with skiers...but the skiing hasn't.  And again...not skiing it near as much as I used to due to proximity and job...I will defend it as the best skiing experience (IMO) in the Northeast!  I've skied quite a bit around the Northeast and would choose Mad River over any other if all conditions were the same (good that is)

CONTENTS DELETED

Wow! Didn't realize how much hate was out there for us.
Sorry that some folks feel like we somehow sold out or something and are no longer concerned about the skiing first and foremost. The bottom line for us is that we have a fudiciary responsibility to the skier-owners of MRG to run the mountain in a prudent way so that the ski experience is protected and preserved for generations to come. That being said we have finished in the black 14 of 17 years since the Co-op took over the mountain. We spend nearly nothing on marketing the place and every dollar we make is plowed right back into the mountain and its infrastructure. We have invested nearly $5 million since the co-op took over ownership and it looks better than it has in many, many years.  I sincerely hope that folks who have not been to MRG or haven't in a while aren't turned off by some of the negativity on this forum and come visit us to see for yourself. We don't try to be all things to all skeirs and we are certainly not for everyone and that's OK. I hope that you'll come on up and come ski it for yourself.

Enjoy the Summer and then....

THINK SNOW!!!

Eric Friedman
Marketing Director - Mad River Glen

wedeler wrote

Let me guess, you've got one of those obnoxious stickers on your car and you saw a photo of the previous owner standing outside the lodge with a big smile on her face - yeah, I've seen that photo too.  Any long term local will say that MRG has changed for the worse the past decade.  It was always about the skiers.  Now it's about money and attitude.  Maybe it's about guys like you.

Seriously, what are you talking about, the ubiquitous stickers that have been around forever? There is a certain attitude at MRG has always been: If you want to be a better skier, ski where better skiers ski. And I doubt anyone would apply that logic only to MRG or debate whether it's changed much over the years.

But, if you hadn't noticed, the coop has actually softened up the product there by running the Birdland area more consistently, and actually grooming those trails with attention to detail as well. I think that makes it about MORE skiers, not money and attitude.

You can also score midweek lift tickets for about $40, the greatest deal in skiing pretty much.

There are just so many ways that Mad is better than ever now. Snowboarders will never feel justified being kept out, but they are doing a great job preserving (the single, the woods, and the lodge) the best possible things about the area for skiers. If there's something you don't like, you can always buy a share and make your voice heard as an owner, too.

That's something you can only do..... NOWHERE ELSE.

Mr MRG wrote

Wow! Didn't realize how much hate was out there for us.
Sorry that some folks feel like we somehow sold out or something and are no longer concerned about the skiing first and foremost. The bottom line for us is that we have a fudiciary responsibility to the skier-owners of MRG to run the mountain in a prudent way so that the ski experience is protected and preserved for generations to come. That being said we have finished in the black 14 of 17 years since the Co-op took over the mountain. We spend nearly nothing on marketing the place and every dollar we make is plowed right back into the mountain and its infrastructure. We have invested nearly $5 million since the co-op took over ownership and it looks better than it has in many, many years.  I sincerely hope that folks who have not been to MRG or haven't in a while aren't turned off by some of the negativity on this forum and come visit us to see for yourself. We don't try to be all things to all skeirs and we are certainly not for everyone and that's OK. I hope that you'll come on up and come ski it for yourself.

Enjoy the Summer and then....

THINK SNOW!!!

Eric Friedman
Marketing Director - Mad River Glen

There's negativity on every ski forum i've ever been on about MRG, not just this one.....just sayin'

I would love to come visit. I don't ski anymore though. As long as the rules stay as they are I will never spend a dollar at MRG.


I love freeriding and ripping up the natural slopes but apparently that isn't good enough. I know in the OP it mentioned to leave this topic alone but quite honestly it's the topic that matter the most to me by far. It's 2013, you would have though we could all live in harmony by now. Half my friends ski, half my friends snowboard, and we get along fine. This isn't Johnny Tsunami(google it)

It's cool that you guys were working on that all natural terrain park. I love natural parks and would love to spend money and check it out sometime. I guess I never will though. Kind of lame that this is even an issue in 2013

I_BUILD_PARKS wrote

I know in the OP it mentioned to leave this topic alone but quite honestly it's the topic that matter the most to me by far.

I changed my mind.  At the time I posted that I figured it had all been said before, but feel free to express your opinion.

Ah the inevitable snowboard issue raises its ugly head!
I would like the NY State Ski Blog community to understand where MRG stands on the issue of the snowboarding ban.

There really isn't one single reason for the ban. It developed over time and it is now a decision that is up to the Co-op's skier-owners. MRG has a very unique ownership structure. The mountain, entirely on private land, is owned by a cooperative. Over 2,000 folks ponied up between $1,500 and $2,000 to purchase a share over the past decade plus. The shareholders receive a modest 10-15% discount on tickets and passes for their "investment." While the mountain is cooperatively owned we generate approximately 60% of our revenues from non-shareholder day skiers and are obviously quite reliant upon them. Mad River Glen makes all of its revenues from tickets and passes (along with the obligatory ski school, burgers, bar and rentals). We do not own a single lodging bed, we sell no real estate, condos or time shares. In this regard we are a rarity in the world of skiing.

The mission of the co-op is protection and preservation of the unique experience offered at MRG. The snowboard ban is a very small part of this experience. It is far more about amazing expert terrain, natural snow (we have a grand total of 3 snow guns), minimal grooming, low uphill capacity thus low on-hill density, a non-commercial experience, a special on-mountain camaraderie and of course our single chair. All these things come together to create a sense of place that is not found at other places in the ski "industry."

The ban on snowboards is simply another facet to the whole experience. The bottom line is that MRG's skier-owners can change their stance anytime they want. All it takes is a vote of the shareholders to make it happen. That being said I always like to note that it is pretty cool that this decision is one that is not made in a corporate board room, by the management or by a single person. It will be made by the entire group when and if they ever decide to. Interestingly after 17 years of Co-op ownership the issue has never even come to a vote, it was mentioned once at a shareholder meeting a few years back but there was no interest in formally bringing it to a vote. When the Co-op began in 1995 the mountain was in danger of closing and we were desperate to sell shares to save the mountain. Snowboarders had an opportunity to organize themselves and buy into the concept, but that didn't happen. I certainly understand why they didn't since a ban was already in place, but it was absolutely not a foregone conclusion that it would remain.

To be honest the whole genesis of the ban is kind of a long story but my generic press release on the subject pretty much sums it up. Here is that "generic press release" I generally use it to answer this often asked question.

Mad River Shareholders Say No To Snowboards

Despite the fact that snowboarders account for 25-30% of all lift tickets sold in the United States, don’t expect Mad River Glen to lift its ban on snowboards any time soon. While the overall percentage of tickets purchased by snowboarders continues to grow, many question how Mad River Glen can exclude this expanding market. Mad River Glen’s skier-owners (it is America ’s only cooperatively owned, not-for-profit ski area) believe there are enough skiing purists to carve out a viable market niche. Recent results confirm the theory. "Since the co-op took over ownership of the mountain in 1995 we have shown steady growth across the board especially among children," said Marketing Director, Eric Friedman. "We are fortunate that there is a growing number of skiers seeking the kind of experience that we offer. Sure, we might see a spike in revenues if we allowed snowboards, but money is not our overriding concern; protecting and preserving our unique ski experience is what our owners clearly want."

Many people don’t realize that Mad River actually did allow snowboards very early on in snowboarding history. Betsy Pratt, Mad River Glen’s previous owner, was friendly to snowboards, but ran into safety issues on Mad River Glen’s main lift, a 1948 Single Chair. After that snowboards were restricted from the Single and then, after several confrontations between Betsy and some local riders, she decided to ban snowboards entirely. When the Co-op took over the mountain the shareholders took a "straw poll" on the issue with more than 75% voting to maintain the snowboarding ban. "We want to make clear that there is no animosity towards snowboarders. The ski industry is very competitive and our ownership believes that the snowboarding policy is the best course for Mad River Glen," explains Friedman. The reasons for the snowboarding ban varies depending on who you talk to. Some say it would ruin Mad River ’s unique character. "Our Single Chair, the cooperative ownership, the natural snow skiing, the non-commercial atmosphere, and the skiers- only policy are what make Mad River Glen special. We don’t want to end up being like every other ski area," said Mad River shareholder Jim Tynan. Others believe that snowboarders would ruin the legendary moguls, while still others feel that they would scrape the natural snow off Mad River Glen’s sinewy trails.

Whatever the reason, it is unlikely that there will be snowboarding at Mad River Glen any time soon. The only way the policy can change is if a two-thirds majority of the shareholders vote to change it. Don’t hold your breath! Alta and Deer Valley in Utah are the only other areas in North America that do not allow snowboards.

I know that this response will not change your opinion but I do want to give you a sense of what our perspective is all about. Please feel free to contact me with any other questions you may have.

Sincerely,

Eric Friedman
Marketing Director

thanks for your well articulated response. a business can choose any plan. McDonalds decided that they will not go vegan. MRG will stay a skiers' haven. --until the owners decide otherwise. unfortunately, the internet has given haven to haters whose narcissism leads to rants that they have a "right" to blah,blah,blah. BTW, hate talk radio loves to use the phrase "just sayin" as if it inoculates the speaker from the message. a few haters can spread their hate a mile wide making it appear that there is support when there isn't.

Jake Burton and the Folks pictured above came up with a great promotion...for MRG...Board it if you can...just can't ride the lifts, unless you are on a split board.  The legendary confrontations started the ban (and I have spoken with Betsy about it many times) and the passionate skiers that bought the mountain just want to keep the skiing experience as it is.  I hope that one day I will be a shareholder but until then I will ski MRG as often as I can.  Mad River Glen SKI it if You Can!

IMO Mad River Glen is the best SKI Area in the East (just wish it was a bit closer to me)

Eric, you have the best job in the world!

sudsnbumps wrote

Jake Burton and the Folks pictured above came up with a great promotion...for MRG...Board it if you can...just can't ride the lifts, unless you are on a split board.  The legendary confrontations started the ban (and I have spoken with Betsy about it many times) and the passionate skiers that bought the mountain just want to keep the skiing experience as it is.  I hope that one day I will be a shareholder but until then I will ski MRG as often as I can.  Mad River Glen SKI it if You Can!

IMO Mad River Glen is the best SKI Area in the East (just wish it was a bit closer to me)

Eric, you have the best job in the world!

Glad you like MRG!
Yes we in fact sold several Co-op shares simply because of the Burton stunt.
Join the Co-op when you can (or not) - it's cool! We are no "country club" and we want/need day skiers so keep on coming back PLEASE! Oh and YES I do have a pretty darn good job with great people to work with too. Rest assured I thank my lucky stars EVERY DAY!