Next Upgrades at NY Ski Areas

TOPS:   I will go out of my way to spend money in a small town, especially a mom/pop.   I never shop before entering NC.    The last 3 times I was in NC I shopped exclusively at TOPS.    I forgot my "discount" ( I HATE THIS CRAP) card.    The teller refused to give me the fake discount, or as I call it charged the out of towner a premium.   After I left, each time I called management, who politely advised...we always will use the teller's card.    

This past trip I brought my discount card but decided to test the teller to see if management brought this up in his/her training over the weeks.    $75 purchase, I advised the teller I forgot my card...."Too Bad for you."    Nope, too bad for TOPS.    Will be shopping at Aldi, Walmart or my home town Mom/Pop grocery before leaving.  Tops:  3 strikes and your out---of town as far as I am concerned.   Sad for the local's who don't have cars or people to help them find quality groceries.   One must find the balance of price/volume/customer service.  Tops got their $5.00 in gouging but now has lost $1000s in sales over the years.  Same for my home mountain's pub.   They increased beer $1.75, to $6.50 a pint of domestic.   I and 15 friends now "shop" 1 mile down the road, helping another Mom/Pop.   Win/win.   Gouge/lose.      

Businesses need smart managers to stay in business.    

Love the hardware store and will shop there for everything, knowing I can get better prices but they don't gouge. I'll pay for convenience and customer service.    

Apologize for the vent and off topic, these locations were mentioned earlier and felt I needed to comment.  


I agree the APA (Gov't) will continue to be the main driver killing ADK towns they espouse to try to save.  The old adage, give a man a fish, he eats for the day.  Teach a man to fish.....   ECO nuts whose hidden agenda is likely to rid man from the park.   Sadly, that will never change due to politics and the lemmings who vote.  

It is true that America's population is getting more lethargic.   For proof, just look how profitable snow tubing is across the NE.   As kids, I am sure we all hiked. Heck, local towns, golf courses and high schools with hills are now forbidding sledding due to Aholes who file suit when Jonny breaks his arm.    Down south, we had a great snow year and not once did I see kids sled riding, but tubing parks banked the green.   There were weeks you could not purchase advance tubing tickets. Fat kids riding carpets up hill.  That said, the % of folks who do love the out of doors, are spending tons of money in small towns and areas who service them.   Kayaking is at an all time high.   Biking is extremely strong.  Outdoor concerts and "Harely fests" are huge and filled with white collar types with fat wallets. Zip line and trampoline parks are booming.   Mud races, Iron man, etc events bring 1000's.   NC being close to 87, Lake George, and in the ADK Park is perfect for promotion.    But it takes cooperation, risk taking, good leadership and a workable government body...APA is an enemy, not partner.     Sometimes you have to give up something to get more.   But that is business reality, not government thinking.  Give up housing, slope mileage, zoning in 1500 acres and your tax base increases, allowing for higher tax revenue (instead of dispersements in the form of corporate or direct welfare)  and then purchase 1000s more unused acres to revert to wilderness.  Accept change in a small % in order to not change the majority %.

Every time I come up I bring guests who have not skied Gore...They love NC and the beauty of ADK.  We love the town, the local restaurants and the vibe.    

A town sitting on the edge of a large ski area, close to 87 and on the banks of the Hudson, only needs a business person with vision and freedom to act.  

I have mentioned closing in the old Gondi buildings, setting up bunks, a bathroom and small kitchen.   A great hostel location that can be used by scouts, hiking groups, events, and yes....skiers/boarders.  

Telemark skiing is seeing an increase.   Start yurt to yurt tours with different levels.   Involve the locals in creating and designing the business  and routes such that wildnerness and freedom is maintained.  Become a telemark mecca.        

TOPS: If you give your phone number they can give you the discount.

I just discovered we had a card when I went in with my wife recently.

 As to your last comment, it's in the working stage.    

Harvey wrote

TOPS: If you give your phone number they can give you the discount.

I just discovered we had a card when I went in with my wife recently.

I politely asked that, as this is what I do at home routinely.   The teller, very experienced, advised they don't do that.   I told the manager what she said, he agreed with her but said she should have used her card.  

Guess my bigger point is....why make people jump hurdles on customer service?  

I don't want to say that it is a unwritten rule to gouge the tourist, but after 3 visits (where clearly I am a out of towner, who is very chill on the town and people, no A-hole here) it sure feels that way.    I smile, thank them for their time and service, apologize for my delay in not having the card and wish them a great day/evening and leave.    As a manager, I blame 99% of issues on management, not the employee.   They would not be doing what they are doing for such a long time if they were not following protocol.   My 2 cents.    

I:)skiing wrote

Telemark skiing is seeing an increase.   Start yurt to yurt tours with different levels.   Involve the locals in creating and designing the business  and routes such that wildnerness and freedom is maintained.  Become a telemark mecca.

Telemark is dead.

I:)skiing wrote

Guess my bigger point is....why make people jump hurdles on customer service?

OR, why can't customers accept the fact the forgot their card, pay the bill, and move on

Adk Jeff wrote

I:)skiing wrote

Telemark skiing is seeing an increase.   Start yurt to yurt tours with different levels.   Involve the locals in creating and designing the business  and routes such that wildnerness and freedom is maintained.  Become a telemark mecca.

Telemark is dead.

Telemark being dead:  Perhaps.   However from my perspective it is growing.  As evidence I only can provide specific examples, not large scale retail data.   Maybe the article was cynical?    For evidence see stretch pants.    

* My 7 yo girl has asked me 4 times for a tele set up and lessons.  
* 4 instructors at my mountain are getting tele certs.
* Having skied at my local mountain for years, I have only seen tele skiers there for the past 3 and it is growing.
* I see more tele skiers at Gore than before---11 yrs.   But maybe I am just noticing them?
* Lots of tele skiers at Kmart---telling stories about how they NOW love the sport.  
* PSIA tele group of instructors is growing and getting younger, my view---I did not run data, but in the 5 years I have been going to Masters Academy, the table has grown every year.    

The cool kids are always looking for something different to separate themselves from the average kid.    Hence snowboarding...now that everyone snowboards, the cool kids that I see are moving back to skiing, with specialty on park.   As those kids age, I predict they will grab tele gear.  


Stretch pants:    The article also mentioned stretch pants going out of style.   I agree they are gone.   However the CONCEPT remains or as I might suggest technology outpaced the pant.    For evidence one only needs to go to Kmart next weekend.    OMG.   Yoga pants with skirt or daisy dukes.    And yes, many of those fine ladies were on tele-gear.   Average age?   28-45 ish.      

The Mountain Adventure program at Gore is putting together a tele group for next year.  

CMR wrote

The Mountain Adventure program at Gore is putting together a tele group for next year.

Plattekill is having one as well!

Plattekill

campgottagopee wrote

I:)skiing wrote

Guess my bigger point is....why make people jump hurdles on customer service?

OR, why can't customers accept the fact the forgot their card, pay the bill, and move on

YEP...I did just that wishing all a good eve.        That said, the store is welcome to charge what they want according to any policy they want, its America after all.       The point is why businesses in this town and across the US either succeed or fail.     If I failed to communicate that, I apologize.   Customer's have legs and can move, retail brick and mortar can't.   We are in a supply and demand economy that is under stress.   Successful businesses today focus on retaining customers.  

Camp...if you forgot your season pass would you pay the $80 for a day pass or go to Admin?    In my case, I politely paid the $80, thanked the teller and called Admin the next day.    Who, on two occasions either lied to me about his policy, looking up the discount number, training employees, or did not clearly communicate the store policy to his tellers in their use of the teller discount card.      

I:)skiing wrote

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Stretch pants:    The article also mentioned stretch pants going out of style.   I agree they are gone.   However the CONCEPT remains or as I might suggest technology outpaced the pant.    For evidence one only needs to go to Kmart next weekend.    OMG.   Yoga pants with skirt or daisy dukes.    And yes, many of those fine ladies were on tele-gear.   Average age?   28-45 ish.

Now you're on to something much better than a few more trails and crappy manmade snow. Gore should have a hot-chic-yoga pant-tele-group............no plus sizes allowed

Tele dying:   Then again, based on my "cool" model, the NE growing in Tele popularity may be akin to the uncool NE mountains just figuring out tele is cool and starting  it.     Cool western skiers have moved on to something else, as the writer suggests  in spring of 2014, fat skis.    

I read a news article on Facebook regarding stock price, whether to invest or not.    It stated that you know a App driven  product is dead or dying when over 50s begin using it.    For years my company blocked Facebook from employees.    At a summer picnic I asked some 17 yo kids about Facebook and how to use it.   "we stopped using Facebook when our parents began posting on our walls."    Soon thereafter my Company permitted Facebook, I have not seen one employee visiting this site in over a year.    

NE tele skiers may be the uncool Facebook parents.     That said, Facebook is still making money off those uncool parents.    So too can NE ski areas.   Yurt to Yurt tours---Go GORE.    


There are lots of rich funeral directors and doctors who make their green off the dying/dead......   LOL (also uncool now)    

I:)skiing wrote

 
 

Camp...if you forgot your season pass would you pay the $80 for a day pass or go to Admin?    

Since you're asking, I would've paid the $80 and enjoyed my day.

I'm not so sure it's a "cool" versus "uncool" thing with tele.  The point of my "tele is dead" comment is that the growth period was 15 or 20 years ago.  I'm 52 now and plan to be telemarking for the next 25 or 30 years, so it's not entirely dead just yet.  My kids will probably take up telemark too (my 11 year old already teles part-time, the 7 year old probably will in a year or two).  There's plenty of us out there to keep telemark alive, but I suspect it will never be more than a relatively small niche within skiing.

The other thing about yurt-to-yurt is that there already plenty of guides (and a few yurts) out there.  If there's one thing Adirondackers hate, it's when state government takes over something that private enterprise is already doing (or could be doing).  I like the idea of yurt-to-yurt, but keep the state out of it. Folks like my friends at Falls Brook Yurts are already doing a great job.

I don't care if tele is dead or not. It's a shitton of exercise and keeps me young.  I admit it makes me look foolish sometimes. But I don't care too much about that, at least not when I ski Gore, Plattekill or Hickory. WF is a different story.

Hut to hut existed years ago in the So Adk. But it never snowed enough to make it a real business so it kind of went away.

Harvey wrote

I don't care if tele is dead or not. It's a shitton of exercise and keeps me young.  I admit it makes me look foolish sometimes. But I don't care too much about that, at least not when I ski Gore, Plattekill or Hickory. WF is a different story.

OK, I'll bite.  What's different about Whiteface?

campgottagopee wrote

I:)skiing wrote

Guess my bigger point is....why make people jump hurdles on customer service?

OR, why can't customers accept the fact the forgot their card, pay the bill, and move on

Exactly. If not hopefully they bought some cheese to go with their ......

Adk Jeff wrote

Harvey wrote

I don't care if tele is dead or not. It's a shitton of exercise and keeps me young.  I admit it makes me look foolish sometimes. But I don't care too much about that, at least not when I ski Gore, Plattekill or Hickory. WF is a different story.

OK, I'll bite.  What's different about Whiteface?

I can't keep up. If you fall behind on the Dark Side at Gore, the group waits less than a minute. At Whiteface with that big vert I get way behind.

At times in an attempt to go faster I go beyond my comfort zone.  No bueno.  The day I skied the slides with Scotty, TJ, HPD and the crew they were incredibly patient with me.  I was blown away by their hospitality, but uncomfortable with it. They probably would have gotten 8 or tens runs in, if they weren't waiting for me.

Gore has so many tele skiers because it is perfect for tele. Tele is a workout and I have no problem riding a slow lift to catch my breath. There are trees everywhere.  Even the flats are fun on freeheels.  Like I said, my opinion on "improvements" is biased.

Harvey wrote

I can't keep up.

You're just skiing with a fast crew.  That's not a tele versus alpine issue.  Well, maybe there's a slight tele penalty in there, but what's Scotty got, like 15 or 20 years on you?

I can assure you all that while tele has declining numbers, it's not going anywhere soon....Not after what I just spent on my new NTN setup.    I saw a good amount of tele skiers a few weeks ago at K-mart as well.