Next Upgrades at NY Ski Areas

Scotty ain't as young as he looks!

Hey Marcski did your rock the NTNs in the bumps at K?  You full time tele now?

Harvey wrote

Scotty ain't as young as he looks!
 

Or acts!

Harvey wrote

Hey Marcski did your rock the NTNs in the bumps at K?  You full time tele now?

I certainly tried but I think the bumps rocked me a bit more than I rocked them on my teles!  I was chasing JT and his old racing buddy around the mountain all day.  I was quite beat up by the end.  I can't wait to do it again!!!  

It is looking like I am full time tele. I need to get my money's worth out of my setup.   

Well according to the sales numbers telemark skiing is kind of dead. AT gear has come a long way and as far as performance goes a tele ski set up just isn't as functional.

raisingarizona wrote

Well according to the sales numbers telemark skiing is kind of dead. AT gear has come a long way and as far as performance goes a tele ski set up just isn't as functional.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, it all depends on the skier, not the (type of) skis.

raisingarizona wrote

tele ski set up just isn't as functional.

True. Unless the desired function is a tele turn.

Marcski wrote

raisingarizona wrote

Well according to the sales numbers telemark skiing is kind of dead. AT gear has come a long way and as far as performance goes a tele ski set up just isn't as functional.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, it all depends on the skier, not the (type of) skis.

There are some great tele skiers out there but as far as the physics go a locked heel and hard boots provide more stability. I think most people that are equally good at both would probably agree with that, maybe not. For me this makes a lot of sense when skiing with tele skiers in super funky wind hammered back country snow or at ridiculously high speeds in big mountain terrain.

I'm not saying that AT is better, it's just different but for me and my interests it's what I prefer. I think it's also easier for the newbie to use AT than to learn how to tele and that in part is why AT gear is getting more attention now.

I've been telemarking for 25 years and have no intention of switching to alpine or AT, so I've got as much skin in the game as pretty much anyone.  But you can't argue with the (declining) sales numbers, and if that leads to boot and binding manufacturers exiting the market (as some already have), telemark skiing will in fact die.  Or... it will go into a period of hibernation and kept alive by a few practitioners on cobbed-together nordic equipment, only to be re-discovered yet again.  Who knows.  

This really pissed me off.

Gore Mountain Facebook Page wrote

Fresh news for Facebook friends first...plan to have fun on the (new) improved Hudson Trail on Little Gore this winter! Previously a glade, now this run will be open more often, following the classic, narrow path of one of the area's earliest ski trails. More details and photos coming in the next couple of weeks- please stay tuned about this and other improvements on the way for 15/16!

Really!?  They have the money to cut a trail and didn't prioritize Abenaki so one could avoid the miles long Pipeline Traverse.  Talk about a bad use of the mileage limit.  Burnt Ridge has a HSQ and desperately needs more trails so they aren't crowded, Topridge could use another trail as well, but no, they had to put more money into the Ski Bowl which was already a waste to begin with.  How about spending the money to cut that trail on more snowmaking since they already take longer than any other mountain to open.

snoloco wrote

This really pissed me off.

Gore Mountain Facebook Page wrote

Fresh news for Facebook friends first...plan to have fun on the (new) improved Hudson Trail on Little Gore this winter! Previously a glade, now this run will be open more often, following the classic, narrow path of one of the area's earliest ski trails. More details and photos coming in the next couple of weeks- please stay tuned about this and other improvements on the way for 15/16!

Really!?  They have the money to cut a trail and didn't prioritize Abenaki so one could avoid the miles long Pipeline Traverse.  Talk about a bad use of the mileage limit.  Burnt Ridge has a HSQ and desperately needs more trails so they aren't crowded, Topridge could use another trail as well, but no, they had to put more money into the Ski Bowl which was already a waste to begin with.  How about spending the money to cut that trail on more snowmaking since they already take longer than any other mountain to open.

I may be incorrect on this but I think that the Hudson Trail is on private property and therefore it may not go against the trail mileage and it was part of the agreement with the condo developer that it would swing by the condos for ski in/out access in exchange for the Hudson chair going over their property. Maybe Harv knows the facts, but I seem to remember reading something to this effect many moons ago. If I am correct then I would have to chastise you for not doing your homework on this one - or at least suggest that you are just like the rest of us...

If the Bowl is a big waste why does it have to be open by 12/26?

It's sad to lose that sweet glade. But if they do reconstruct the original trail exactly as it was that will be something a little unique.

The work they did in no way precludes Abenaki getting cut, and has nothing to do with the mileage limit.

Harvey wrote

If the Bowl is a big waste why does it have to be open by 12/26?

That's the day you have to open it for it not to be a seldom open waste.

Harvey wrote

The work they did in no way precludes Abenaki getting cut, and has nothing to do with the mileage limit.

How does it not have anything to do with the mileage limit?  Did they find a way to circumvent it, or was it already included?

How does it not preclude Abenaki getting cut or at least delay it?  You said that in a state run business, if you spend half a million on one thing, you have half a million less to spend elsewhere.  They are spending however much it costs to cut what was fine as a glade into a trail rather than a glade that is somehow supposed to serve as a major connector which needs to be a trail.  IMO, you should cut the trail that benefits more people first.  Abenaki would provide another route off Burnt Ridge which desperately needs more trails and a way to avoid the pipeline traverse.  Hudson is just another trail one can lap off a lift that barely even runs anyway.

Burnt Ridge desperately needs more trails and Topridge could use one as well.  All of the ski bowl trails aren't even consistently open either.  Why build another one rather than focus on improving those already there?

IIRC, everything to looker's right of the Hudson Chair is Town of Johnsburg land and therefore not subject to the trail mileage limit.
I'm really not fond of the name "Little Gore."  I wish they'd stick to calling it the "Ski Bowl."

According to a lifty friend, 46'er is getting snowmaking. I'll check with him again when he's sober.

The land to lookers right of 46er is not under the mileage limit.  I thought most of it was Front Street Land.  Most of the other side of the Bowl is TOJ land and I'd be surprised if it is part of the limit either. The mileage limit is in the NY state constitution.  A special exception was made to allow Gore to manage TOJ terrain, but they can not manage private property. There was actually a trade two years ago that put that headwall bypass onto TOJ land so Gore could manage it.

I don't know where you are getting half a million, that's insane.  This is marketing.  Just like Abenaki.  You know Abenaki is going to be a trail eventually, so one summer a year or two ahead you make it a glade. You have a minimum crew you are paying over the summer regardless.  They walk through with a chain saw or loppers and clear it for tree skiing. Marketing: "New glade!" It costs almost nothing. Then you take it the next step and make it a trail. That's not as cheap as a glading for sure as you need more equipment, but the snowmaking is the real cost.  That pipe and the guns cost real money.

46er needs that pipe more than Abenaki.

The pipe was actually purchased for 46er a few years back. But a judgement call was made to use some of it to extend the line on Foxlair down skiers right of Sunway so they could blow that huge expanse under the Gondi from both sides. It was the right move IMO. If they are putting pipe on 46er they probably got the funds to buy some more pipe.  Who knows maybe you'll get a little blowby into the new trail.

You know what pisses me off?

That the seasons don't change on the day they're supposed to.

And why have Spring at all? I mean who the hell needs spring? Spring is for suckers. It's useless except to get from Winter to Summer.

ADK Jeff:   thanks for the info on Yurt to Yurt---I agree a private firm is better than ORDA.   That said, I had no clue it was out there already.  

Harvey wrote

The land to lookers right of 46er is not under the mileage limit.  I thought most of it was Front Street Land.  Most of the other side of the Bowl is TOJ land and I'd be surprised if it is part of the limit either. The mileage limit is in the NY state constitution.  A special exception was made to allow Gore to manage TOJ terrain, but they can not manage private property. There was actually a trade two years ago that put that headwall bypass onto TOJ land so Gore could manage it.

Yeah, that's it ^^.  Mileage limit applies only to Forest Preserve land (i.e. land owned by NYS).

Harvey wrote

46er needs that pipe more than Abenaki.
The pipe was actually purchased for 46er a few years back. But a judgement call was made to use some of it to extend the line on Foxlair down skiers right of Sunway so they could blow that huge expanse under the Gondi from both sides. It was the right move IMO.

I agree it was better to use that pipe on Foxlair / Sunway than 46r.
Not so sure though that 46r needs to get piped more than Abenaki.  IMO, increasing the connectivity between BR, the Ski Bowl and the main mountain should be a top priority.  My guess is that 46r will be way down at the bottom of the priority list for actually blowing snow.  Possibly dead last.  I'm still stoked to ski 46r (I've never skied the headwall section), but I really wish Gore would boost their snowmaking firepower.
I wonder if they'll be able to blow both 46r and the new trail (Hudson) with one pipe set?

Ok, Sno has some points and possible he couldn't know about the land ownership. Looker's right is FS. It's the trail that's supposed to make the Ski Bowl Village development ski in - ski out for the village people.

Burnt Ridge needs AT LEAST two trails in addition to Abenaki.  it has just two now which are some of the most crowded on the entire mountain.  A HSQ serving just two trails is a no no unless you want to watch a demolition derby from the lift.  Even Stratton's trails are less crowded than BR's.  Abenaki needs snowmaking the very first year it is cut.  Like I said earlier, all major connector trails need snowmaking as soon as they are cut, Abenaki being one of those, it needs snowmaking.  

According to Harvey, however much you spend in a state run business, you have that much less to spend elsewhere.  Cutting the Hudson Trail means that Abenaki can't be cut this year and Hudson should be a much lower priority since it doesn't help you move around.  There will also be 4.5 routes down on the ski bowl now that are served by a triple chair.  That should not happen when the next section up has just two routes and a HSQ.  Considering that the customers who spend the most money are the ones who like the intermediate cruising trails, you'd think that cutting some more would be a priority.

You know what, forget it.  I'm never going to persuade anyone on here that Gore has taken their terrain expansion overboard and that much of it made little sense.  Enjoy skiing half the mountain for most of the year because they increased terrain and not snowmaking.  You can find me at Stratton.