ORDA has "ongoing fiscal challenges" according to this article

I think there are certain things the government does (schools, prisons, parks, etc.) that should not be required to turn a profit. I think promoting tiny towns in the ADKs and Catskills that otherwise don't have much going for them (in winter, especially) is a perfectly fine use of money. So, yeah, a $700,000 loss would be acceptable to me...

sophia wrote

And I find it interesting there are posters here who think 700 thousand dollars is an acceptable loss. Of course thats a number that's just been tossed out. The object of ORDA is to come out even. So year after year at a loss is well, something we should look at.

Well, OK, how about the state park system. Doubtful it makes a profit. Probably costs the taxpayer even more. Do you propose that we close the park system? Don't you think that government should provide minimal recreational opportunities for all? Consider your ski areas as the same. Otherwise, we return tho the late ninteenth century, when only the rich could enjoy our mountains and beaches. I'm pretty sure there are some who would love that.

freeheeln wrote

ausable skier wrote

 its a flat and boring hill that can't compete

i thought we were discussing belleayre not gore

ausable skier wrote

and I will shut up.......
 

   

ausable skier wrote

If the Teddy touch does......

sophia wrote

And I find it interesting there are posters here who think 700 thousand dollars is an acceptable loss. Of course thats a number that's just been tossed out. The object of ORDA is to come out even. So year after year at a loss is well, something we should look at.

If nothing else, an organization that losses money every year, shouldn't be giving raises to its head people. Especially when its workers have taken pay cuts and lay offs. Top pay goes to those who earn the state money. Or am I alone in my thinking.

You cannot look at the loss by itself when there are revenues not directly booked by the organization (ORDA) like sales tax, bed tax, local property tax and the jobs that support the local population. NYS is not a business.  People forget that.

I am no fan of ORDA. They are Lake Placid centric and have done some questionable things (conf center). But without ORDA Lake Placid would not be the wonderful place to visit it is right now.

That conferance center is going to be a rev generator forever...for the entire community.

tjf1967 wrote

That conferance center is going to be a rev generator forever...for the entire community.

While this statement is true, the amount of money spent and the size of the place are overkill without decent airline service. Add in the downturn in the conference business and you have a big waste of public money. The local business who benefit from the CC should have contributed financially to the place. Then something more reasonable would have been built. The usage of the CC will be "local" NYS groups who are able to drive. It will just be taking business from other areas of NYS. You don't build a 1000 room resort if you are only going to use 100 rooms a night.

Here is a quote from 2/21/2013:
"LPCVB President and CEO Jim McKenna said attracting clients hasn't been easy, mainly because Lake Placid isn't a major air destination."
This was true before it was built. I guess the lack of airline service was just ignored.
Link

The article crows about a 1100 person conference contracted by the NYS School Boards Assoc in Oct, 2017. The CC has a kitchen built to serve 8000 meals. It doen't look good when your best deal is 3-1/2 years out and using aound 15% of the capacity.

The other issue will be beds as LP is pretty jammed up in the summer and winter. That leaves less opportunity (if they could draw 5000 people conferences) for max usage. It looks like the so called "shoulder seasons" between summer and winter will be the only times available for max usage.

sophia wrote

So we should assume this is correct:

Adk Jeff wrote

In my opinion, the criticisms of ORDA's non-competitive bid contracts is barking up the wrong tree.  There's not much $ on the table in those contracts, and Blazer's response (posted by Harv above) correctly points out that these were appropriate and allowable.

How much do you personally know about those contracts? And why should we take the word of ted Blazer?? So to say Ted Blazer is correct sounds well, naive. Unless there is much you know that you have not shared with us.

I don't "personally know" a thing about those contracts.  Comptroller DiNapoli stated: "As of fiscal year end March 31, 2012, ORDA reported 304 active procurement contracts totaling nearly $27.5 million, of which 167, valued at nearly $7 million, were either not competitively bid or were non-contract procurements."

75% of of ORDA's active contracts are bid competitively. Obviously at least some of the remaining 25% represents contracts that aren't required to be bid competitively. Hence my statement that there's not much of a dollar value in those remaining contracts.  As for Blazer's statements, yes perhaps I am being naive, but I will take the CEO's public statements at face value until those statements are shown to be incorrect.  Do you have evidence that Blazer's statements are incorrect?

sophia wrote

And I find it interesting there are posters here who think 700 thousand dollars is an acceptable loss. Of course thats a number that's just been tossed out. The object of ORDA is to come out even. So year after year at a loss is well, something we should look at.

Yes, I do think that's an acceptable loss based on ORDA's $300 million regional economic impact.  

sophia wrote

If nothing else, an organization that losses money every year, shouldn't be giving raises to its head people. Especially when its workers have taken pay cuts and lay offs. Top pay goes to those who earn the state money. Or am I alone in my thinking.

^^ Disgruntled (former) ORDA employee?

Sais you.  I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  

x10003q wrote

The other issue will be beds as LP is pretty jammed up in the summer and winter. That leaves less opportunity (if they could draw 5000 people conferences) for max usage. It looks like the so called "shoulder seasons" between summer and winter will be the only times available for max usage.

Oh yeah, right, it's April. hmmmmmm......let's have a convention in Vegas, Orlando, or mud season in Lake Placid. No, wait, if we wait a few more weeks, it'll be black fly season!

I am sure glad we have WF and Gore. However I always wonder why it is that they do not generate more profit. They should not have all the expenses other private ski resorts have. As an example, from the 2012-2013 ORDA budget there was only $340K in interest expense and $1.1M of principle pay down and they pay no taxes. The main infrastructure (buildings) should have no leans so they are left with the new lifts, groomers and snowmaking equipment as big capital expenses.  A private resort would have a lot higher debt load, pay realestate taxes and other business taxes. One difference is that neither area as a realestate/rental business to generate revenue like many privates do.

DackerDan wrote

One difference is that neither area as a realestate/rental business to generate revenue like many privates do.

There you go. Answered your own question.

ScottyJack wrote

freeheeln wrote

ausable skier wrote

 its a flat and boring hill that can't compete

i thought we were discussing belleayre not gore

surely i jest

mattchuck2 wrote

I think there are certain things the government does (schools, prisons, parks, etc.) that should not be required to turn a profit.

LOL. Very few government projects that return a profit to the government itself.  By that measure road building is almost always (outside of toll roads) a complete loss.  But roads are an infrastructure that allows private enterprise to make money.

The one huge profit center for the US Gov over the last five years (that I can think of) was wildly unpopular - the megabank bailouts. The gov't got an 5-8% return on their money and was paid in full.

Harvey44 wrote

The one huge profit center for the US Gov over the last five years (that I can think of) was wildly unpopular - the megabank bailouts. The gov't got an 5-8% return on their money and was paid in full.

A Big Lie. Don't get me going. We need to put a few of those bankers in jail. Otherwise, another crisis is right around the corner.

Benny Profane wrote

A Big Lie.

Wait.. the money wasn't paid back? I am crushed.

Benny Profane wrote

We need to put a few of those bankers in jail. Otherwise, another crisis is right around the corner.

I agree. Except I think that even if we do put them in jail there will be others to replace them.  Amazing how nobody was really held accountable.

Harvey44 wrote

Benny Profane wrote

A Big Lie.

Wait.. the money wasn't paid back? I am crushed.

Benny Profane wrote

We need to put a few of those bankers in jail. Otherwise, another crisis is right around the corner.

I agree. Except I think that even if we do put them in jail there will be others to replace them.  Amazing how nobody was really held accountable.

If you had a 401K you were held responsible for electing the politicians

I accept no responsibility for any of it.

It's sounds cold I know, but the big down turns (9/11 and 2008) are buying opportunities as long as you keep buying.

That's the only growth we've seen in our 401k.

Harvey44 wrote

It's sounds cold I know, but the big down turns (9/11 and 2008) are buying opportunities as long as you keep buying.

That's the only growth we've seen in our 401k.

This.  Anyone who kept funding their 401(k) through the downturn did well.  The Dow was 6600 in March of '09.  It closed over 14800 today.  More than doubled in four years.