Plunge: The Catskill Beast?

snoloco wrote

Ethan made a good point, that the ski area being open can only help the local economy, which you very quickly dismissed in a non constructive way.  As I said earlier, he has some credibility on this subject because he OWNS AND OPERATES A SKI AREA.

No disrespect to Ethan but I noted his point and replied.  Because he has a lift and wants to make snow, it doesn't mean he knows anything about the general notion of the ski industry.

In terms of stuff that actually matters in the world, ski industry is pretty bottom of the barrel.  It's recreation.  People in other less fortunate countries don't even get that privilege.  In Maslow's hierarchy of needs it doesn't even really register.  It amounts to nothing but something that is fun.  Fun is cool, but when it comes down to what really matters, it's not going to fulfill the bottom of the pyramid.  It's not going to sustain life.  It's not going to better our species.  And it's something you can do, as I said countless times, without the need for artificial means.

nepa wrote

ScottyJack wrote

threesome

Listening to my Bearcat scanner... an APB just went out... the thread cops have put out a warrant for your arrest.

The cops are always looking for SJ

That $50k isn't all electric and it's probably high. Some of that is wages etc. I took Laz's number for electric and grooming in good conditions (very cold and dry) and doubled it.

Skiing, like almost all human endeavor, degrades the earth. Some activities we aren't "allowed" to criticize. DUDE! You have 10 children! What are you thinking!  Your house is 5000 sq feet and only two of you live there! You use massive chemicals to get rid of weeds! What are you thinking!  Regardless, any addict is "blind to the real issues" skiers are no different.

I always assumed that my biggest impacts from skiing were in order: driving, wood burning and then the fraction of destruction at the ski area attributed to me. I have no idea if this is correct.

If snowmaking is the most destructive part of the process, then Plattekill is better than most with only 50% coverage. Would it be more or less responsible to double the mountains capacity and stick with two feet on Plunge?

I still like Plunge better than North Face for it. It is loaded with character.

snoloco wrote

For a few ski areas, including, but not limited to Killington, Snowbird, and A-Basin, it is profitable to push the season.

You say this like it is a fact.  IMO it's branding which is hard to quantify.

Harvey:  The benefit from the brand that they create makes the ski area more profitable, so yes, it is a money driven decision to push the season.

MikeK:  When was the last "energy crisis"?  The 1970's with the OPEC embargo?  Were ALL ski areas forced to shut down operations?    No.  If any were forced to close, reference a reliable source proving it.  It would take a much more serious energy crisis to have any effect on skiing.  You think you're too good to ski at a resort, so you want to see them be forced to close so everyone has to ski your way.  You should be glad that 95% of skiers always go to resorts so you get the powder to yourself in the backcountry.

Wow, this must be what it feels like to be an asshole that voted for the Iraq War and then realized that Saddam was the glue that kept the middle east together. Off to mail Noah my apology now.

snoloco wrote

Harvey:  The benefit from the brand that they create makes the ski area more profitable, so yes, it is a money driven decision to push the season.

This doesn't proved that it is profitable.

snoloco wrote

MikeK:  When was the last "energy crisis"?

The energy crisis is ongoing, it never ended. Someday you will understand.

Harvey wrote

The energy crisis is ongoing, it never ended. Someday you will understand.

This is also how i feel about the Cold War.

ml242 wrote

... Off to mail Noah my apology now.

Funny you should say that. I have having similar thoughts.

snoloco wrote

  You think you're too good to ski at a resort, so you want to see them be forced to close so everyone has to ski your way.  

I don't think he has ever said anything like that.

MikeK wrote

snoloco wrote

Ethan made a good point, that the ski area being open can only help the local economy, which you very quickly dismissed in a non constructive way.  As I said earlier, he has some credibility on this subject because he OWNS AND OPERATES A SKI AREA.

No disrespect to Ethan but I noted his point and replied.  Because he has a lift and wants to make snow, it doesn't mean he knows anything about the general notion of the ski industry.

I may have some credibility because of my resort, but I think I have credibility becaise of my connections with other ski area managers, and other people in or related to the business.

Ethan Snow wrote

I may have some credibility because of my resort, but I think I have credibility because of my connections with other ski area managers, and other people in or related to the business.

You don't have defend your credibility here, you are the man.

http://nyskiblog.com/woodstream-ski-area-2015-update/

MikeK wrote

snoloco wrote

I don't get all jealous if someone else skis later than me.

I expect no less from you actually.  I'm quite convinced that you have no clue about these things and have no idea about the industries you will be wanting to work for in the future.  the idea?

You mean the ski industry?  I work at Plattekill, and manage Woodstream

BTW, please don't use the word "industry" in this forum. I hear it way too many times during my days at school, and I'd appreciate it if I didn't have to hear it on this website. The only people who use that word are miserable rich white guys who are very grumpy, and have no understanding of human relations because they have spent their entire miserable life "in industry".  Like yourself, and many of my professors.

If you continue to use that word on this forum I am going to tell my friend Harvey!

If party was open and extra 4 weeks, I would hit it twice out of the 4 . Killington is 240 miles one way,and Platt is 90 miles. I LOVE SPRING SKIING get it done!

Harvey wrote

The energy crisis is ongoing, it never ended. Someday you will understand.

You're the only one in this whole thread to admit this.  So why are you for this?

Odd how the tables always turn when you stick up for something you believe in, even though it isn't popular.  And your little moderhaters want to bring Noah back to deal with me.  That's cute.  ml already told me to leave here in an email a few months ago, so I've just been waiting for him to melt down on me.

I dunno Harv.  You kinda acted like my buddy for a couple weeks, then dicked me over here publicly and kinda brushed it off.  How you gonna handle this one?  Stick with what is popular, or what you think is right?

Sick Bird Rider wrote

ml242 wrote

... Off to mail Noah my apology now.

Funny you should say that. I have having similar thoughts.

Hahaha - the guy who called you creepy Santa Claus.  What have I ever said contrary to you?  Just jumping on a bandwagon with yer pals?

Enlighten me please.

Mike:
Respectfully, are you against all lift-served skiing and snow-making? All the arguments you make are valid from a certain point of view but it seems like if we head down that road most of us are out of business skiing-wise (or at least limited to 4-8 weeks of low angle rock skiing). If I'm supposed to feel guilty for running the snow guns a little longer, how can I justify turning them on at all? I'm genuinely curious to hear your complete take on this. And if this idea bothers you this much, what do you think about the golfing industry? That's got to be a lot worse right?

Ethan,
No - you've got the wrong Harvey

Ethan Snow wrote

If you continue to use that word on this forum I am going to tell my friend Harvey!

We've got a snitch here.

LOL, I think I have the right Harvey

Brownski wrote

Mike:
Respectfully, are you against all lift-served skiing and snow-making? All the arguments you make are valid from a certain point of view but it seems like if we head down that road most of us are out of business skiing-wise (or at least limited to 4-8 weeks of low angle rock skiing). If I'm supposed to feel guilty for running the snow guns a little longer, how can I justify turning them on at all? I'm genuinely curious to hear your complete take on this. And if this idea bothers you this much, what do you think about the golfing industry? That's got to be a lot worse right?

My point is it is a slippery slope.  There is no regulation, as of yet, and it's a hugely wasteful industry here in the east.

I think your argument is like... the water already has chemicals in it, why does it hurt if we toss in a few more?  It's silly.  It's always the argument people make and that's why development ALWAYS keep going in this direction.

Someone realized by snowmaking they could make a buck here in the east, more so than the guy relying on natural snow.  So it happened and more lifts were built, and now it's a big thing.  Now you want to talk about adding probably 50% more snow to extend the season a month!  Killington did it.  Great.  I'm not crazy about it when I think about it from that standpoint, but whatever, no way I'm going to convince you to boycott that.  But if another place goes... well then maybe another goes... and well maybe Jumbo goes.  I'll always be against it.  We have so much development and so much recreational waste in the US I can't stand to think of adding more.  For what?  To build an economy?  An economy of what?  A bunch of seasonal, low paying jobs that do nothing to advance human kind.  It's silly.

I can't stand golf courses.  I think the whole thing is a waste of water, forested or farm land, and a cess pool of chemicals.  But what can I do?  I can't stop all of them.  But if someone wanted to build and develop a new course and I had a chance to protest it, I would.  It's all the same to me.

I'm not against having fun or trying to make people feel guilty, but how can you rationalize that and support something like CAFE or talk in the off-topic about things like green energy or GW without feeling like a complete hypocrite?

The more, more, more attitude is what drives us that way.  And you try to justify it with a month more of jobs and economic stimulation.  It just doesn't add up to me.

I know I won't convince you guys.  And if this guy can make it work, he will, but I'd never support it, and hell, you might want to think about not doing it either.  Again rationalize it anyway you want, but it's the same as wasting any other resource for the sake of your own enjoyment or private gain.

I'm tired and I'm sick of this topic.  I'm sick of 17 and 18 year old kids not understanding the value of our environment and the crisis we are facing, and are going to face in terms of energy.  I wish their parents would teach them.  At least my shitty parents taught me that one thing.  I wish these kids who think they are engineers understood why the government needs to regulate these kind of things instead of listening to morons like Z who think it's all about the economy and money.  I wish pussies who don't understand this stuff wouldn't jack up someones credibility based on having a private ski resort.  Put it this way, in the auto industry, no one would EVER strive for low emissions if the EPA didn't demand it.  It just wouldn't happen.  It's not profitable.  It's not fun.  It's only a little bit of chemicals in the air?  Why even worry?  You can't justify those things using business means.