Plunge: The Catskill Beast?

It seems that one component of regulation failing does not entail that a carbon tax wouldn't work.

mandating what people can and can't do never works, because anything can be circumvented, but if you make something expensive, people have to make choices

noip wrote

It seems that one component of regulation failing does not entail that a carbon tax wouldn't work.

mandating what people can and can't do never works, because anything can be circumvented, but if you make something expensive, people have to make choices

Why should those with money have the choice to decide whether we harm our environment or not.  Of course those with money and the powers that be want this solution, but it's not going to solve the problem.

I understand the EPA is not a bulletproof entity and not entirely without corruption, but as I said earlier, if there is no regulation whatsoever, nothing happens at all.  I'm dead serious about that.  Not one single car would roll out of a factory with any regard to emissions of harmful gasses and particulates if it weren't for the governments of countries where the cars are sold dictating what they must meet in order to be lawfully sold.

There might be a couple fruits like me who would say... hmm... I don't think that's a good idea to let cars choke our atmosphere with NOx, HC, lead and CO - and there were, and they passed the legislation.  I'm that fruit right now and everyone that has responded thus far, for the most part, thinks I'm off my rocker.  But in essence it is no different.

You are correct though, at it's core this is really about energy use and not pollution, but those two go hand in hand, and until the power and transport industries can relieve those issues, adding more energy usage is just adding more pollution.

of course regulation is needed, have you ever heard of the tragedy of the commons?  that is exactly what we are discussing now.  there are free riders from burning fossil based fuels as an energy source.  a carbon tax tried to take into account the externalities of fossil fuel consumption.  this is pretty basic stuff mike

MikeK wrote

I'm going to scream.

Mikey,
Given the optical properties and emissivity of snow are you sure that it does not actually radiate more heat back into space along with the cooling effect of the melt than it takes energy to blow it in the first place? Wouldn't that be a hoot - snow making is actually good for the environment. Would really upset the fun squashing ecoterrorist in ya.

raisingarizona wrote

Back to the topic, what would the costs be to keep the area open for a few extra weeks vs. what would have to made during those extra weeks to make it worth it for Plattekill? I don't think it adds up as a win for the mountain but I have no idea.

It would take a handful of seasons to build a base of visitors before you could tell if it was worth it.

PeeTex wrote

Mikey,
Given the optical properties and emissivity of snow are you sure that it does not actually radiate more heat back into space along with the cooling effect of the melt than it takes energy to blow it in the first place? Wouldn't that be a hoot - snow making is actually good for the environment. Would really upset the fun squashing ecoterrorist in ya.

Go work on yer spellin' Gramps   It would be better use of your time rather than posting that swill.  Nice try though.

Don't you have a Trumpster to defend?

snoloco wrote

MikeK wrote

I'm going to scream.

Hhahahahaha!!!!

Oh god Sno.  Keep 'em coming!

MikeK wrote

PeeTex wrote

Mikey,
Given the optical properties and emissivity of snow are you sure that it does not actually radiate more heat back into space along with the cooling effect of the melt than it takes energy to blow it in the first place? Wouldn't that be a hoot - snow making is actually good for the environment. Would really upset the fun squashing ecoterrorist in ya.

Go work on yer spellin' Gramps   It would be better use of your time rather than posting that swill.  Nice try though.

Don't you have a Trumpster to defend?

I am only half joking. I suspect that there is some merit there. I bet you will find there is a total heat loss there. The next question is whether or not that outweighs the effect of the greenhouse gasses created to produce the energy or the energy wasted by the people traveling to ski on it.

It's like the natural gas discussion, oh -it's so much better than oil, then you find out that because of all the leaks in the system it's much worse. Sometimes things that seem obviously bad are good, you just never know until you do the math.

And that level of uncertainty adds to the complexity (is that even a word?) of this idea as well. Marketing ain't cheap.

So i got a serious question : DID ANY REAL PRODUCTIVE WORK GET DONE TODAY at your respective workplaces  or did this shitstorm kill the clock for you all ( sarcasm , smartass , just pulling yout chains

MikeK wrote

I've made my case.

I hope so. Do you ever feel guilty about the energy expended on all of these round trips to the server? Perhaps you could roll all of your posts into a newsletter instead of posting on messageboards, it would save a lot of energy.

warp daddy wrote

So i got a serious question : DID ANY REAL PRODUCTIVE WORK GET DONE TODAY at your respective workplaces  or did this shitstorm kill the clock for you all ( sarcasm , smartass , just pulling yout chains

Kidding but not really.

Actually am kidding and its directed NOT at you Zona but the whole damn thread

HAHA but so much truth in your sarcasm it's undeniable! :)

I still don't think that the efforts $ wise would pay off for Plattekill. It looks like a big pay out for a big maybe to me.

An argument for Plunge is that it's under the chair and a big part of spring skiing is the aspect of exhibitionism. People wear costumes and want to smash slush bumps with an audience. Just a thought.

Now does anyone actually want Plattekill to compete right there with Huntah? I mean, is that a good thing to bring in that kind of attention or could it ruin what makes that place so special? I guess it all comes down to what they need to do to survive as all of us (myself included even from out here) want that little soulful mountain to keep on keepin on.

I got a yooge amount done at work today, just got home. Yooge day at work.

Looking forward to reading this through whole dumpster fire.

I admit that it would be logical for Hunter or even Belle to be the beast of the Cats but they don't seem to want to do it.  Laz won't close until the snow is gone.

I don't think glaciering NorthFace or Plunge would take away from the character of the mountain. Hunter does not seem to care about late season skiing. They are very agressive about getting open early, and they can do that because they can make a lot of snow fast. Hunter seems less eager to stay open into April.  I think Plattekill should strive to be open for christmas break, and anything before that is just a bonus. They never get many visitors before Christmas anyway. I think Plattekill should focus on the late season. Now they are not competing with Hunter, but instead, offering up something different. Plattekill has a better aspect for late season anyway. And they have more elevation, and slopes close to the lift, and straight down.

This would be my game plan:

Begin making snow in early December with plans of opening for the weekend after Christmas. If the weather is favorable, then heck, groom it out, and open early.

Then move over to Plunge. Try to have that open during christmas break too. Then do Blockbuster. Once everything is in good shape, then you begin to conquer NorthFace.

The Triple side is better for beginners, so it makes sense to open with that. Beginner skiers want to ski on christmas break, and most of them are not skiing after Presidents week. So IMO, once Feb rolls around, I would forget about the triple side, and focus all effort on the North side. Let the triple side go as long as possible, but re-focus your main efforts to the double side. The double side is more suited to advanced skiers, and they are the ones who want to ski in May.

Here is proof that The snow holds. Even in a bad year. These spots were well under 10 feet in March. Photo taken this past sunday.

Since there is currently a severe lack of snow for May, why doesn't everybody come soon out for some fun Dh mountain biking!

Here is a berm I built this weekend.



We are also working on a new race course that will be open for all riders after the race. It will have some sketchy sections but we are making go arounds, and are making it very doable for intermediate riders.