Problems at Belleayre

I used to rent a cabin at  belleayre for 6-7 days over Christmas with my kids. I'd eat in some as go out a few nights as well as re stock on provisions.I did it because it was very inexpensive. At a more expensive hill I probably would have went for 3 days instead.

I don't see any reason why Belleayre cant make it. But it should not try to be something that it is not (Hunter). It's a nice beginner/intermediate mountain, good for families, especially with younger kids.

Finally, if I had any say, I would sub contract  the lift startup to Windham on a permanent basis so that the mechanics have plenty of time to recover from their illness.

tom

TomCat wrote

I don't see any reason why Belleayre cant make it. But it should not try to be something that it is not (Hunter). It's a nice beginner/intermediate mountain, good for families, especially with younger kids.

+1

Belleayre needs an "identity". It doesn't really have one right now. Amongst state agencies, ORDA is uniquely qualified to determine an appropriate identity for Belleayre, and then market it accordingly. DEC clearly has been unable to do that.

ausable skier wrote

Funky Polak wrote

ausable skier wrote

Pretty sure Funky Polak the Kmart skier is a NJ resident so he doesn't really have any skin in the game.

So that means I can't have an opinion? By the way, I do not limit myself to Killington and do ski Hunter and Plattekill.

Funky -
since you aren't a NYS taxpayer and don't partonize either of the NYS owned Mts and the one Hill I really don't see why you piped into this topic.  everyones opinion is welcome but just saying NYS should not run a ski area when it in is no way affecting you is odd IMO

X - that you chose to work in NYS and live elsewhere by default means that you don't get represented - you could live in NYS is you wanted to vote in NYS.  Like Scotty said thanks for your contribution to making Orda a better ski area - we really appreciate it man.  That was a classic line Scotty.

Let me rephrase that. I do not believe any state should be running a ski resort.

Face4Me wrote

Belleayre needs an "identity". It doesn't really have one right now. Amongst state agencies, ORDA is uniquely qualified to determine an appropriate identity for Belleayre, and then market it accordingly. DEC clearly has been unable to do that.

it totally has an identity..
It's a family place with chill trails.  That offers a respite from the craziness of the other more popular areas and the advance terrain of Hunter and Plattekill.  A place where an intermediate can stretch out on the brief headwalls and get better in the bumps without having to share lines with more advanced bump skiers hammering down on them.

the guy that runs it makes a great end of season party - where he "kills the kegs" and people drink free..    

dmc_hunter wrote

it totally has an identity..
It's a family place with chill trails.  That offers a respite from the craziness of the other more popular areas and the advance terrain of Hunter and Plattekill.  A place where an intermediate can stretch out on the brief headwalls and get better in the bumps without having to share lines with more advanced bump skiers hammering down on them.

the guy that runs it makes a great end of season party - where he "kills the kegs" and people drink free..

I know that, and you know that, but I don't think a lot of other people know it. I've met a lot of people who have either never heard of Belleayre, don't know where it is, or don't know anything about it.

The fact is, the same is true about Whiteface, at least where I live in downstate New York. When you tell people you ski at Whiteface, they often ask "Where's that?" When you mention Lake Placid, you get a little more recognition, but there's still a lot of people who know nothing about it. It's MUCH better than it was 8-10 years ago, but there's still a ways to go.

I think the same is true of Belleayre ... they need to take that "family skiing" identity, make some capital improvements to reinforce it, and then carry out the marketing to get the word out.

Look at what Mountain Creek, in NJ has been able to do by transforming itself into a "mega terrain-park". Perhaps that's an approach that could work for Belleayre. I just don't think it's necessary to completely give up on it ... there are plenty of skiers, particularly in the NY Metro area, that can be tapped ... it's just a matter of finding the right way to do it.

ausable skier wrote

X - that you chose to work in NYS and live elsewhere by default means that you don't get represented - you could live in NYS is you wanted to vote in NYS.  Like Scotty said thanks for your contribution to making Orda a better ski area - we really appreciate it man.  That was a classic line Scotty.>

Hardly a classic line as I have been skiing Gore as my home mountain for over 25 years.

I am not complaining about not being represented because I live in NJ. It is constantly mentioned here that NJ skiers get a free ride with Belleayre and ORDA and this is just not true.

All this talk about Belleayre causing ORDA's financial downfall is laughable. There is a $20 million convention center that already has that role for ORDA.

Face4Me wrote

dmc_hunter wrote

it totally has an identity..
It's a family place with chill trails.  That offers a respite from the craziness of the other more popular areas and the advance terrain of Hunter and Plattekill.  A place where an intermediate can stretch out on the brief headwalls and get better in the bumps without having to share lines with more advanced bump skiers hammering down on them.

the guy that runs it makes a great end of season party - where he "kills the kegs" and people drink free..

I know that, and you know that, but I don't think a lot of other people know it. I've met a lot of people who have either never heard of Belleayre, don't know where it is, or don't know anything about it.

The fact is, the same is true about Whiteface, at least where I live in downstate New York. When you tell people you ski at Whiteface, they often ask "Where's that?" When you mention Lake Placid, you get a little more recognition, but there's still a lot of people who know nothing about it. It's MUCH better than it was 8-10 years ago, but there's still a ways to go.

I think the same is true of Belleayre ... they need to take that "family skiing" identity, make some capital improvements to reinforce it, and then carry out the marketing to get the word out.

Look at what Mountain Creek, in NJ has been able to do by transforming itself into a "mega terrain-park". Perhaps that's an approach that could work for Belleayre. I just don't think it's necessary to completely give up on it ... there are plenty of skiers, particularly in the NY Metro area, that can be tapped ... it's just a matter of finding the right way to do it.

They need lodging on the Mountain and to reopen Highmount for skiing..  But thats a whole separate issue...  that would require another thread..
 
When Hunter started with the real estate and the hotel - it really started making things move...
Capital improvements all over the place... The learning center and separate learning area started wooing families back.. New lift..  Snowmaking upgrades and updates..  All kinds of stuff..  And with all the real estate filled up businesses are opening to support these people...

I'm just not sure the day trip model with normal ticket prices would work all that well for Belleayre..  Gotta get people to come and stay.  Support the community..

dmc_hunter wrote

They need lodging on the Mountain and to reopen Highmount for skiing..  But thats a whole separate issue...  that would require another thread..
 
When Hunter started with the real estate and the hotel - it really started making things move...
Capital improvements all over the place... The learning center and separate learning area started wooing families back.. New lift..  Snowmaking upgrades and updates..  All kinds of stuff..  And with all the real estate filled up businesses are opening to support these people...

I'm just not sure the day trip model with normal ticket prices would work all that well for Belleayre..  Gotta get people to come and stay.  Support the community..

I hope you're wrong about the day trip model, because I just can't see people investing in real estate at Belleayre. I just don't think there's enough there, between the mountain and the surrounding community, to make that worthwhile, especially given the current economic climate.

I suppose we'll have to wait and see, but I hope it does survive. When I do ski the Catskills, which admittedly isn't very often, I usually choose Belleayre over Hunter or Windham.

Gotta agree, for me the Catskills are a day trip. If I were to invest money in a condo/house there are plenty of other areas I prefer.

Funky Polak wrote

Let me rephrase that. I do not believe any state should be running a ski resort.

well i doubt your Gov Christie (who I'm a huge fan of by the way) is planning to get into the ski area biz so you are safe there down in NJ from having a Sussex county development agency running Hidden Valley.

If you have read my posts you could surmise that I lean to the right and am not a fan of big gov.  Given the development restrictions of the APA and the constitutional restrictions against privatizing orda its either fund it so it can be a viable business that can mke a profit for the state (which does suit my school of thought) or no skiing up in the DAKs.  I then would have to move to the peoples democratic republic of VT where i would be the only republican in the state so that i could ski.  The cheddar is also not as good over there across the lake.

Face4Me wrote

dmc_hunter wrote

They need lodging on the Mountain and to reopen Highmount for skiing..  But thats a whole separate issue...  that would require another thread..
 
When Hunter started with the real estate and the hotel - it really started making things move...
Capital improvements all over the place... The learning center and separate learning area started wooing families back.. New lift..  Snowmaking upgrades and updates..  All kinds of stuff..  And with all the real estate filled up businesses are opening to support these people...

I'm just not sure the day trip model with normal ticket prices would work all that well for Belleayre..  Gotta get people to come and stay.  Support the community..

I hope you're wrong about the day trip model, because I just can't see people investing in real estate at Belleayre. I just don't think there's enough there, between the mountain and the surrounding community, to make that worthwhile, especially given the current economic climate.

I suppose we'll have to wait and see, but I hope it does survive. When I do ski the Catskills, which admittedly isn't very often, I usually choose Belleayre over Hunter or Windham.

Right - I was a day tripper too.. But I didn't spend $ until I started renting..

If it's done right - it totally doable..  
Hunter burned the mortgage for the hotel they built in a year..  Sold out..  And a great hotel too..
People are buying second homes again.. Especially condos.   If Belleayre can expand to Highmount and build a bit - it will benefit the area and the hill.  

 ORDA makes money over all but we have to beg the NYS govt to let us keep it up here.

In their fiscal year ending 3/31/2011, ORDA lost $13.7 million dollars.

"The true reason for the transfer is to access the bonding power of ORDA in order to assist a private developer, Crossroads Ventures, to build a profitable ..." ??????????????????????

Seems like ORDA will be a Trojan Horse to go forward with the huge Belleayre Development project were the private developer will build two Hotels, two housing developments and a golf course and Belleayre will expand into the old Highmont area... Former Gov. Spitzer was pushing this and now Gov. Cuomo seems to be sneaking this in.

Peter Minde wrote

ORDA makes money over all but we have to beg the NYS govt to let us keep it up here.

In their fiscal year ending 3/31/2011, ORDA lost $13.7 million dollars.

Peter let me repharse - Gore and WF make money.  All the other venues lose huge money.  As a XC guy I'm suprised you'd bring this up.

also part of that loss is the capital spending on the convention center which is a total waste of money IMO

Big D wrote

 "The true reason for the transfer is to access the bonding power of ORDA in order to assist a private developer, Crossroads Ventures, to build a profitable ..." ??????????????????????

Big D maybe on to something.

IMO, I wouldn't put too much credence to the financial loss statements that come out of these Agencies. Consider NYRA, OTB and such. Always crying broke even though they get 100's of millions from the gov and many millions more from gambling.

Like private ski areas, private gambling areas turn a good profit and they do it without Gov money. Yet Gov gambling and skiing venues are perpetually crying poverty. It doesn't add up. Essentailly, boob bait for the masses to facilitate fleecing.

don't know anything about gambling but besides the indian casinos are there legal private gambling operations in NYS?

ausable skier wrote

don't know anything about gambling but besides the indian casinos are there legal private gambling operations in NYS?

Not that I'm aware of, but the Indians just north of me are friggin PRINTING money.

ausable skier wrote

don't know anything about gambling but besides the indian casinos are there legal private gambling operations in NYS?

NYS NYRA is involved in Saratoga, Aqueduct and Bellmont race tracks.  Also, somehow, casino gambling is legal at the Saratoga Harness track.

I think NYS should legalize gambling and marijuana!!  Tax it and we be set!  

Peter Minde wrote

In their fiscal year ending 3/31/2011, ORDA lost $13.7 million dollars.

You try making money off Bob sleding, Ski jumping and XC skiing.  On its own WF makes the bacon!!!  

I say close down Van Ho!  Give the private skiing enterprise Cascade Ski Center the business, what there is of it...

I concur...+420