Rail-trail decision for Lake Placid scenic RR

CONTENTS DELETED

This is such great news in my opinion, for this area.     Now watch tourists pile into this area once it becomes known to bikers and biking campers/hikers.  Watch 5k, 10k, Marathons form to run on the trail.    

Stupid Northcreek and politics.........Now even after they finish the fake, in my view, moving of tailings from Tauhaus, they have another 50 yrs to let that rail sit, according to what I read.    Even if they could get access to the rail out of NC to Tawhaus in the near future, LP/Sanarac just struck and will be the 'go to' long wooded trail to ride.    

The bike path in Stowe is a great model for this.  restaurants back up to the route with outside cafes and bars.  Does a lot for local businesses in the summer there.  Good use of the bed tax to develop a new attraction fir the summer.

What a bummer, now all those rich people buying great camps in Tupper will have one less way to access their mansions.

Pullman train cars 100 years ago to the great camp for the rich

Private jets today

Hey they support local biz and pay real estate taxes so the reality is that the ADK have always been and will continue to be dependent on rich NYC types.

Coach Z wrote

Pullman train cars 100 years ago to the great camp for the rich

Private jets today

Hey they support local biz and pay real estate taxes so the reality is that the ADK have always been and will continue to be dependent on rich NYC types.

What was I thinking? Your right - the new slogan "Big Tupper - the Aspen of the Adirondacks"

PeeTex wrote

What a bummer, now all those rich people buying great camps in Tupper will have one less way to access their mansions.

Actually the rail line will be left in place from Old Forge up to Tupper.  Then it's rail-trail from Tupper to Saranac to Lake Placid.  NYS DOT wants passenger service on the rail line that's left in place.  IMO it's kind of a win-win for Tupper:  they get the benefits of both the rail trail and train service.

Jeff is dead on,   But really don't see much passenger traffic to Tupper on rail.   Unless you take your bike, you are stuck in Tupper, not much of a walking city and don't see rental car companies starting up...maybe the locals can increase funds via UBER.    Cost of car once in Tupper diminishes any value of the train, unless you take the train for romantic old world ideas.  

Watch, 5 years from now they will be tearing up from Tupper to Old Forge....now that would be a bike ride to remember.   Yurts, lean to's, camp sites, amazing potential.  


Good night North Creek, you had your chance.    Watch others succeed in your stead.    


 

The trains are strictly for scenc rides not actual transportation of passengers.  You would have to go to Utica and then up thru old forge to get to Tupper.

I like i skiing idea for a long distance rail trail

There may be some freight potential for lumber etc in that area

I don't understand why anyone busts on this Tupper development.  The more rich second home owners we can get in the Daks the better for people that actually live here.  The more rich folk the better.

I:)skiing has good point about NC missing the boat on this. These bike trails have been bringing good tourist revenue to many areas. I can see it being very popular in Placid. Northern Vermont is said to boom from their bike tourists.

Tourists trains are " nice, romantic " but serious money losers for the most part. Is the one to NC still even running ?

Two summers ago I was hearing the train had a solid impact in summer on shopping on main street in NC.

Any reports on this summer?

I'm not buying the demise theory.  I think for any specific town have the line end at you should be ok right?  I guess you are saying that if the track was ripped up above NC it would create more tourism.  I hadn't heard keeping it for 50 more years.

I think mr. i luv skiing needs to point his vitriol for the sncrr towards the powers of warrren county as they are the idiots at the wheel, not NC!!
I do agree 100% that rail trails are a much preferred way to go in the future!

Coach Z wrote

I don't understand why anyone busts on this Tupper development.  The more rich second home owners we can get in the Daks the better for people that actually live here.  The more rich folk the better.

For most places that is true. The Big problem with the ACR is that most of the tax revenue(and most likely all of it in the beginning phases) will not go to the town, school or county where it should. Instead it will go to pay off the Bonds borrowed through the FCIDA to pay the PILOT. And apparently that is what is still on the table as the ADE ran an article a few days ago with a new appointee to the IDA who is a major Kool Aid drinker who has zero business sense. Just what the IDA needs, a long time public sector employee who thinks tax revenue is free money to use on whatever gets touted as Job Creating.
Sorry, but if the Shark is "in" on this, let him bring in some of his $300M to fund it, No taxpayer money should be wasted on this if it's as good as we keep hearing the developer say.  
And as adkjeff asked somewhere else, where are all these investors who were just waiting in the shadows ready to throw money in once the project got APA approval, or once the Lawsuit was dismissed?  What happened to them? Weren't they supposedly going to fund the operation of Big Tupper also?  Funny, no mention of them anymore.

It's the property taxes that the rich folk that are going to buy the homes That will make the difference

The developer has had to spend millions in legal fees fighting the Green NYC city lawyers that held this whole thing up for what like 8 years.

Coach Z wrote

It's the property taxes that the rich folk that are going to buy the homes That will make the difference

The developer has had to spend millions in legal fees fighting the Green NYC city lawyers that held this whole thing up for what like 8 years.

Coach, Don't you get it? The property taxes that the rich people pay will be diverted to make the PILOT payments, they won't be going into the local coffers. The current local taxpayers will see an increase in their taxes to cover the shortfall created by having a section of the community not contributing to the coffers while getting services.

All this does is create more profit for the developers. I'm all for the development as long as they pay their own way and don't ask for any PILOT. Let Greg pry open the wallet if he thinks this is such a great venture.

To remove rails that are currently in use and that can be, through a relatively small bit of work, reconnected to the national network seems foolish. Once gone, good ol' rampant NIMBY-ism will prevent their ever being relaid.

Shortsighted, selfish, late-20th-century "environmentalism," if you ask me. In order to move further toward a "wilderness" ideal, itself a late-20th-century construction at odds with the conservationist ideal under which the Park was founded, get rid of the last vestiges of industry within the Blue Line.

Raises the property value of my great camp! Slap another environmentalist bumper sticker on the ol' SUV!

We are interpreting the tax relief differently

The developers taxes get diverted to pay back pilot.  Where doe it say that the individual property owner real estate taxes and school taxes would go there.  You could be right but I don't believe so - show me

Those rails are not serving any useful industrial purpose between LP and Tupper.  Maybe from Tupper Sw they are.

Sorry for pointing all toward NC.    I guess I am putting everyone from Warren, NC etal into the NC basket on why this decision was made.   I followed it very, very closely when our track decisions were being made.   Seems that NC was more about the "jobs" that would be created in reopening the tailings.    Love to know those stats and may do some research when I have some time.    

50 years.....that came from a statute or rail law that deals with eminent domain.   Because the rails had not been used in like 48 yrs, the rail trail people were salivating that they would revert back to NYS lands....the salvage fees would be negotiated on the steel rails.   The rail line then "came up" with the idea that they would reopen Tawhaus tailings and run the rail again.    Because they started using the rails, from what I understand they now have another 50 yrs of rights to that property.    Not saying I am an expert or am right, but this was my understanding.    

25 minutes ago I just passed the NCR trail in Monkton MD.    Guarantee there were 85 cars with racks parked in the lot and along the street.    Tomorrow there will be over 400 in the several stops along access points.  There are at least 35 bed and breakfasts along the 45 miles of trail.   I have stayed in many...even though my home is 25 mins away.    Its fun to bike tour, hike etc.    

As someone noted all the NIMBYs complained when the NCR because reality...they fought it tooth and nail.  Today, their prorpery values sore because they back up to it.

Town of NC, Warran County etc...should have done tons of research before backing the rail---outwardly or behind the scenes, but from everything I read and recall, they did in fact back---or not openly and vividly endorse the trails.    

Coach Z wrote

We are interpreting the tax relief differently

The developers taxes get diverted to pay back pilot.  Where doe it say that the individual property owner real estate taxes and school taxes would go there.  You could be right but I don't believe so - show me

Those rails are not serving any useful industrial purpose between LP and Tupper.  Maybe from Tupper Sw they are.

Coach, Read the application or the actual permits on the APA website, the Property owners taxes are used to pay the PILOT. I am right, why do you think people are opposed to the PILOT? And if it's not the property and school taxes of the resort owners used to pay back the PILOT, who does pay it? Their last proposal was to get $36 Million through the FCIDA and use the new owners tax revenue to pay it back. We are not interpreting anything differently, you just don't have the details of this arrangement right. Read up and get up to speed.

Harv, Sorry for the thread drift.

Coach, Endo is correct ^^.  The proposed PILOT would have diverted the end-owners property taxes to repay the PILOT.  That's why it was such a bad idea.  The developers get their improvements paid for out of the proceeds from the PILOT, then those who buy the great camps pay the PILOT back in lieu of property taxes.  The only ones who benefit from this arrangement are the developers.  The arrangement was well documented by NCPR and others.  I don't have the link at my fingertips but when I get a moment I'll try to remember to add it in the next few days.

The latest information I have is there is not currently an active PILOT application for this project, so it remains to be seen if this ultimately comes to pass.  But if it does, it's a disaster for the local community, doubly so if the project gets only partially built (i.e. great camps only) and then abandoned.