Sno Report Card for Holiday Terrain Availability

Time to grade ski resorts according to Christmas terrain availability.  Grades are as follows.

A:  All skiable, key lifts open, plenty of terrain off each lift.

B:  All skiable, key lifts open, limited terrain off some lifts.

C:  Some skiable, key lifts closed, little to no impact on crowds on other lifts, lots of terrain off open lifts.

D:  Some skiable, key lifts closed, large impact to crowds elsewhere, limited terrain off some lifts.

F:  Closed completely or WROD.

Skiable key lifts neglects real estate access lifts, or lifts that aren't necessary to run due to low crowds.  For example, no points would be counted against Whiteface if the Mountain Run lift is closed, as long as LWF (which serves the same terrain, plus more) doesn't have a long line.

I will also give + or - to some ski areas.


Whiteface:  Lookout chair and terrain closed, but large amount of terrain off open lifts.  Little to no impact on crowds elsewhere.  Grade:  C+ (no B awarded unless all key lifts are open, but very good skiing experience)

Gore:  Dark Side, Burnt Ridge, and Upper Ski Bowl terrain fully closed.  Limited terrain off Straightbrook and North Side lifts.  Closed lifts have major impact to crowds elsewhere.  Dark Side lift closed means the AE2 can't be used to reach the upper mountain, and everyone going up there has to take the gondola, so Six Flags style line in the morning and post lunch rush.  Not to mention if one thing goes wrong with the gondola, everyone is stuck below The Saddle.  Grade D.

Belleayre:  All key lifts open, but only one trail open off Tomahawk lift, and runout down to Superchief skied off to bare ice by 10am.  Grade B

Hunter:  Best snowmaking capacity out there, all lifts open, plenty of terrain off each lift.  Grade A.

Windham:  Almost the entire main mountain is open, plus some of East Peak is.  All lifts open.  Grade A.

Killington:  All key lifts, and most snowmaking terrain open.  Grade A+ (takes a huge amount of effort to get a mountain that size fully open for Christmas, but they did it).

Mountain Creek:  All 4 peaks open and connected means all lifts are up and running.  About 50% open after opening just 12 days ago, in a NJ climate.  Some trails open that I've never seen open in December.  Grade A+.

Disclaimer:  My ratings only focus on terrain and lift availability, not how good overall a ski experience is.

snoloco wrote

Gore:  Dark Side, Burnt Ridge, and Upper Ski Bowl terrain open.

Pretty good trick. How'd ya manage that ?

Sno can you add:

Greek Peak
Snow Ridge
Plattekill
Song
Togg
Titus
Mount Peter
Holiday Valley
Mad River

I realize it's a lot of work, maybe just give the grade.

There's a math problem in there somewhere that has variables for snowmaking capacity, acreage, latitude, elevation, budget, natural snow totals and skier visits.

snoloco wrote

 Six Flags style line in the morning and post lunch rush.  Not to mention if one thing goes wrong with the gondola, everyone is stuck below The Saddle.  

Anybody at Gore today and care to comment on the lift line at the Gondi. My guess is that as usual, Sno is speaking with no actual knowledge.

PeeTex wrote

snoloco wrote

 Six Flags style line in the morning and post lunch rush.  Not to mention if one thing goes wrong with the gondola, everyone is stuck below The Saddle.  

Anybody at Gore today and care to comment on the lift line at the Gondi. My guess is that as usual, Sno is speaking with no actual knowledge.

Say what PT ? The Gondi broke down today ?

Snowballs wrote

Say what PT ? The Gondi broke down today ?

Did it? Were you there?
My guess is that if anything when wrong today it was due to ice on the cables making running detachables somewhat problematic.

Snowballs wrote

PeeTex wrote

snoloco wrote

 Six Flags style line in the morning and post lunch rush.  Not to mention if one thing goes wrong with the gondola, everyone is stuck below The Saddle.  

Anybody at Gore today and care to comment on the lift line at the Gondi. My guess is that as usual, Sno is speaking with no actual knowledge.

Say what PT ? The Gondi broke down today ?

I was at Gore two years ago on MLK weekend when the High Peaks chair crapped out.  Only way to the summit was via Gondola and Straightbrook Quad.  Gondola line was at least 15 minutes in the morning rush and out of the ropes.  Was able to get up to the summit during lunch hour with about a 5 minute wait and didn't need to ride the gondola again that day.  Having the other lifts open likely kept people away from the gondola, and kept the line from getting too crazy.  Since that's not a possibility this time around, it will likely be worse.

Also forgot to mention that because Pine Knot and the High Peaks Chair are closed, only advanced skiers can access the summit, even though there's intermediate terrain available up there.  Kind of pathetic that an intermediate skier can't go above the gondola, while Whiteface is offering accessible intermediate terrain off their much higher summit.  1,700 vs 3,200 vertical.  Pretty easy choice I'd think.

Greek Peak:  C
Snow Ridge:  C
Plattekill:  C
Toggenburg:  C
Titus:  A
Mount Peter:  B
Holiday Valley:  A
Mad River:  C

snoloco wrote

Gore:  Dark Side, Burnt Ridge, and Upper Ski Bowl terrain fully closed.  

Ah, You closed them. wth !

You and Peetex both seem to have reading issues today (though it's taking longer for PT to catch on).

Did ya'll get your eye glasses mixed up ?

Haha, I wish they were open.  Just a typo on my part.

My grading scheme is probably overly harsh on ski areas that don't open all the lifts, even if they have almost everything else open.  For example, Tremblant opened all their lifts, except The Edge Quad, which serves only 2 trails and some tree skiing.  Just about everything else is open off the other lifts, but the highest they get under the scores I defined is a C+.  Would've been an A if they opened it.  The B grade is mainly reserved for mountains that opened terrain with the sole purpose of getting all lifts open.  They get rewarded for trying to open all the lifts, but no one is getting an A unless they have a lot of terrain open, either by getting a lot of natural snow, or having a world class snowmaking department.

I'll give Bristol a B-not all terrain open, but about 75% is. Cranked on the guns as soon as they were able and will continue to open slopes when the temps cooperate.

I just want to second that Hunter is Grade A right now.  I went on Christmas and they had so much terrain open and so many lifts.  Their snowmaking is next level

There's something that isn't apples to apples about the grading system.  Mad's grade is about it's position, no snowmaking and two lifts.  Plattekill had an A+ on opening day 100% today they have less terrain.

Gore could improve their grade by selling (lol) Burnt Ridge and the Ski Bowl but it wouldn't change the skiing today.  Kind of like when Gore removed glades from the percent open number a few years ago. That didn't really change anything but the number.

I like the idea sno but you aren't measuring the same thing in all cases.

this system might only be slightly worse than a ski mag readers poll.

Give me the next nor-Easter grade a's, I want to ski there.

ml242 wrote

this system might only be slightly worse than a ski mag readers poll.

 I have to agree, ML. Sno, you've come up with a lot of good data analysis regarding skier density and true vertical in the past. Why not incorporate that into your grades?

I'm going to suggest that we consider the holiday week grades the "midterm grades." typically in school, ones midterm grades are much lower than their final grades. Many times this comes down to teachers not having everything that was submitted graded. Midterms are really just a little kick in the pants to,let you know you have work to do. Something similar happens with mountains I think. Lets do this again on presidents week which is usually peak season and see what the grades are like then. We will call them the "final grades"

I have to completely change the grading scheme to make it work by then.

I can also change the holiday week grades here as conditions change.  For example, Titus went from an A to a B as most of their trails were covered with natural snow and many were lost in the r*in last night.

Who may want to include a "W" for who the hell cares

Then don't read this thread.