Some Reasons Gore's Current Status

One big no no in my opinion is for a place to make it hard for you to give them your money.  Taking way too long to sell a lift ticket is one way to make it hard for you to give the ski area your money.  Implementing RFID technology like Stowe and Jiminy Peak have is a way to reduce ticket lines as one can reload their card online, or get one mailed to them.  Plus, at Gore, you'd only need gates at a fraction of the lifts which would reduce the cost.  You'd need them at Sunway, Gondola, AE2, Burnt Ridge, Village Chair, and Hudson Chair.  That's because these are the lifts you can get to from a parking lot without hiking.  North, Topridge, Straightbrook, and Dark Side wouldn't need gates because there is no way to get to them from a parking lot without hiking.

Snowballs wrote

Ok, how about this..... the by-pass killed NC's chances of becoming a booming ski town ?

Two sided argument.     I see both.    But would argue that the bypass was the FIRST step that needed to occur to have a viable ski town.     Ski towns to me, are walkable.    Granted there is not major traffic on 28N, but there is sufficient to make the town too busy.    

I like the fact that it is tucked away, quiet.    


Maybe the bypass could have been step 3 instead of 1.    Get the people and businesses by requiring driving through, THEN bypass.  

To steal from a popular song....."its all about the town, bout the town,  no ads"      

snoloco wrote

 That's because these are the lifts you can get to from a parking lot without hiking.  North, Topridge, Straightbrook, and Dark Side wouldn't need gates because there is no way to get to them from a parking lot without hiking.

And we know you would never hike.  But what about those willing to hike?  Can they ride the upper lifts for free?

Gore does not have decent lodging for people to stay.  Anyone with the money to build hotels finds better locations for them.  The winter is not what is deterring the hotels builders its the Summer.  There are so many better options to go to in the ADK's.  

Powderchaser wrote

Can they ride the upper lifts for free?

Absolutely not.  This could be enforced the easy way or the hard way.

The easy way:  Ban uphill travel altogether.  Do it without a lift ticket and you get escorted off the mountain and charged for theft of services and trespassing

The hard way:  Do random ticket checks at the upper lifts.  If you catch anyone, the same thing happens as above.

This is not a Whiteface vs Gore issue. Whiteface has the same problems as Gore and could use much of the  updating that Gore needs. The mileage limits are outdated at WF also.

The mentioning of  Lake Placid refers to the overwhelming bias that the ORDA board has towards Lake Placid. I understand the history behind this, but even after 30 years North Creek remains shaky. The main reason for this is the  bias of the ORDA. I do not think North Creek could ever be anything like Lake Placid, but certainly is should be much more than it is right now. Some of this can be attributed to the town not always being on board with development and the incredible zoning that exist in the park.

The overnight accommodations around Gore remain sparse. Front Street has clearly made errors in the direction and choices they have chosen at the base of the Ski Bowl. They probably needed to start at a lower price point and maybe build one of the 80 unit lodges in their plan. Having slope side housing is a draw and it is still missing from Gore. The ORDA board had a real fear of this potential slope side housing as they tried to delay the building of the Hudson Triple in the Ski Bowl after the lift was already delivered to Gore. It seems this fear was not needed. If  Gore (Front Street has nothing to do with Gore, unlike what happens at privately owned ski areas) was involved in driving the Front Street slope side development it would be done already.

The idea that Gore does not advertise in the NY metro area is baffling (a few lines on a  Lake Placid small poster ad is not really promoting Gore). Gore does provide the terrain that the vast majority of skiers want and the travel time to Gore competes favorably to southern VT. It is hard to say what part of ORDA is limiting the ad budget.

I think the local management at Gore and WF are doing the best they can while dealing with the current situation. Maybe there is no incentive for local management to increase the visits. Maybe the money that an extra 50k visits would add would just end up in Lake Placid making up for the venues that need financial support and not return to Gore or WF. Maybe local management would have the same budgets and staffing despite an increase of 50k visits.

The fact remains that Gore is underutilized. This means continued lack of snowmaking horsepower, lifts being used well beyond their useful life, no new bathrooms/food services on the mountain and parking down the access road. It seems as if there is no changing this path.

I continue to be impressed by the deep thought, advice and opinion offered here.    Gore/NC/Orda would be wise to contribute funds to Harv to keep this site intact.    A valid, valuable use of social media.    

RFID is the long term future of lift tickets.     Just as CDs took the place of cassettes and records---lets not discuss 8track.    


The question is:   Invest now and have more years to save for the return on investment.     Or hold off while the technology gets both better and cheaper.      A buddy and I came up with 5 money making methods a mountain can achieve with RFID.   Basically our ideas spring boarded off ideas that they Canyons/Vail already do but can do more were they given the ideas....or perhaps they already have them and have not yet implemented.  


OOPS----no webcam.  RFID likely has not even been considered yet.      

I:)skiing wrote

Gore/NC/Orda would be wise to contribute funds to Harv to keep this site intact.

LOL I:) appreciate the sentiment but I don't see that happening.

Doing my best to stay away from the GoFundMe route too.

Harvey wrote

I:)skiing wrote

Gore/NC/Orda would be wise to contribute funds to Harv to keep this site intact.

LOL I:) appreciate the sentiment but I don't see that happening.

Doing my best to stay away from the GoFundMe route too.

Maybe hit up Snoloco's Dad? If he paid a nickel a word, you could buy the whole internet!

I don't think that RFID technology would bring more people to Gore on its own.  I mean who decides "I'm going to go to the mountain with RFID tickets because they have them".  However, it would improve the ski experience by shortening ticket window lines, making liftlines go smoother because the lifties don't have to bar code scan the tickets, and it would also be beneficial to the environment because the cards are reusable.  One could keep the cards if and reload them if they were to come again, or put them in the drop box at the end of the visit so the mountain could reuse them for someone else.  There would be less used up lift tickets thrown away.

With RFID cards, there could also be a Ski Bowl only option added.  Just place gates at Eagle's nest where it intersects with Peaceful Valley and you can only go through there with a full Gore ticket.  There is already a place to go around where I'm thinking of placing them if you are returning to the BRQ from Abenaki or Barkeater.  

Agree RFID does not bring in customers.....it helps retain them.    AND as snoloco mentioned, you can separate and charge more/less for your product as you deem.   That can be good or bad for skiers/boarders.    Today, our prices are $10.00 per Gondi ride, $8.00 per ADKII $6.00 for Straightbrook.    

RFID is the future, get it now or get it later, but you will get it.      It should be noted that RFID can reduce staffing but staff (today) must still be used to verify the RFID.    A season pass holder can give his/her ID to a friend who tucks it inside the coat.    You still need someone to politely ask to see the ID now and again to verify photos.  I was told that Vail pays a  $100 reward paid to attendants who catch someone and from what I heard, the season pass holder loses his/her pass.    

One example of RFID our local mountain is considering is parent tracking their children on the mountain, via App.   We have lots of "drop off" parents who bring their kids skiing while they sit in the lodge and work, watch TV or scan the windows trying to see their kid(s).    The mountain can use the data to track "lost" kids too.     Basically setting up RFID readers at key crossing/escape points.   While it does not occur frequently, as soon as a parent advises their child is missing, we have security lock down the resort,every car is checked, including trunks, that is leaving the resort until the child is located.    

At Stowe, there is a computer screen that the pass photo shows up on when the pass is scanned.  Someone can get caught if they look way different from the picture.

Orda has spent more capex on Gore than WF over the last 10 years.  How is that a bias in favor of LP.  You southern Dak dudes need to give up on this bs argument.  It's your local businesses that are not investing to make this happen down there.  Built it and they might come.  Don't built it and for sure they ain't.

Coach Z wrote

You southern Dak dudes need to give up on this bs argument.

Don't lump me in to this group.

Coach Z wrote

It's your local businesses that are not investing to make this happen down there.

What is the source of this information?

Harvey wrote

Coach Z wrote

You southern Dak dudes need to give up on this bs argument.

Don't lump me in to this group.

Ditto.  I think ORDA's been more than fair with Gore regarding Capital Expenditures.  However, regarding marketing expenditures, I think X has a valid point.

Uh hello, that money came from Albany. I recall ORDUH not wanting to release the Ski Bowl funds, they sat on them. In fact, local Senator Betty Little and a bunch of NC Dak Dudes had to go to the ORDUH meeting to demand they release the funds that came from Albany. I saw the meeting. It was ridiculous.

Dak dudes.....

Harvey wrote

Coach Z wrote

You southern Dak dudes need to give up on this bs argument.

Don't lump me in to this group.

Coach Z wrote

It's your local businesses that are not investing to make this happen down there.

What is the source of this information?

Sorry I'm just tried of this argument that Gore is not favored when in fact Orda has spent much more on it than WF recent time.

To get NC going you have to have a small core of businesses that are investing.  It does not seem to be happening to me.  Wilmington is making that attempt and while not booming it seems to be succeeding.  The 2 camp grounds drive the summer biz not WF or LP.  The efforts with Mt Biking really seem to have helped.

Let's not forget that the Ironman is up there at Lake Placid n the summer and there is hardly a weekend that you can not find triathletes running, swimming or biking up there, with plenty of expendable cash that drives the town, to say nothing of hockey tournaments and the equestrian activities nearby!  There's lots more going on in Lake Placid that drive the tourist dollar beyond skiing.

Coach Z wrote

Harvey wrote

Coach Z wrote

You southern Dak dudes need to give up on this bs argument.

Don't lump me in to this group.

Coach Z wrote

It's your local businesses that are not investing to make this happen down there.

What is the source of this information?

Sorry I'm just tried of this argument that Gore is not favored when in fact Orda has spent much more on it than WF recent time.

To get NC going you have to have a small core of businesses that are investing.  It does not seem to be happening to me.  Wilmington is making that attempt and while not booming it seems to be succeeding.  The 2 camp grounds drive the summer biz not WF or LP.  The efforts with Mt Biking really seem to have helped.

Google "pataki ski bowl north creek" and maybe throw in "sweeney" and "little" and you'll see that the NYS Legislature, not ORDA, calls the shots on where the money goes. Whether ORDA is biased towards LP (Really now, "Olympic Region[al]" is right in their name!) is irrelevant.