Some Reasons Gore's Current Status

It helps to understand the reasons behind the illogical growth at Gore. This could have been added to the update thread, but it is drift. We all know that Gore is owned by NYS and run by ORDA and has made great strides in the last 15 years. Despite these great improvements in the size and capabilities at Gore, it seems to be locked in at drawing around 210,000 visitors per year. Gore could easily handle another 50k visits without ruining the experience. This extra money would help with on mountain updates and the local economy.

The Gore mileage limit.
This mistake is in the NYS constitution. It was truly a lack of vision, as happens many times in government decisions. In the entire 6million acre Adirondack Park there might be 1000 acres of lift serviced skiing. There is no logical reason for the limit. Burnt Ridge is the current example of the problem. How do you build a ski pod with a 6100 foot long HSQ and have it serve only 2 trails? The mileage limit is one of the reasons. You could easily have a wonderful old school group of 5 or 6 trails (like the North Side) on the Barkeater side of Burnt Ridge. These trails could be 30-90 feet wide and serve most skiers including green skiers. Due to the current mileage limit this will never happen. The HSQ is an under used asset.

ORDA
ORDA is a Lake Placid centric Authority. They see Gore and North Creek as competition with Lake Placid to fill beds. As long as Gore is a cash flow positive, day area for the Albany to Lake George region, the ORDA board is happy. As North Creek area continues to flounder, Lake Placid is booming.

Lack of Advertising and Promotion of Gore
I have lived in the NYC area my whole life. I have never seen or heard an advertisement for Gore Mountain. I have encountered ads for Whiteface, Stratton, Mt Snow, Okemo, Hunter, Windham and even Killington. How does ORDA allow support this lack of advertising? Gore is just 3.5 hours from many people in the NYC area, has expanded beautifully to almost 500 acres of 90% snowmaking covered terrain, yet there is NEVER a mention in the NYC metro area. This is not the way to maximize a valuable NYS owned ski area.

NYS and money
Obviously, the money is a problem. It comes in fits and starts from NYS. Sometimes there is money for only parts of the project and the rest has to wait. This seems to happen at Gore all the time. This is why snowmaking lags at Gore. This is why chair lifts (and the original gondola) are used well beyond their useful lives. This is why there is only one set of bathrooms beside the base areas on the entire mountain. This is why there is only one small area (beside the bases) to get food on the entire mountain. Gore also competes with the questionable decisions made by the ORDA board like the $20million spent on the convention center in Lake Placid.

Lack of Parking
There needs to be more parking at Gore. There is no reason for cars to be parked down the access road. When you turn people away it is a problem.

I realize that most of us do not want more people at Gore. However, as Gore (NYS) was allowed to pretty much corner the ski market in the southern section of the Adirondack Park, it should be maximized to its full potential.

x10003q wrote

I have lived in the NYC area my whole life. I have never seen or heard an advertisement for Gore Mountain.

While historically that ^^ has been the case, this past season (and the previous one too if I remember correctly), NJ Transit train platforms had winter billboards for the Lake Placid region, which included messaging for Gore -- I posted a pic of it in some thread.

Not the same as a Gore-only advert, but just saying.

A lot of what is in the OPs thread is pure opinion and speculation that I totally disagree with.

Ok, how about this..... the by-pass killed NC's chances of becoming a booming ski town ?

Snowballs wrote

Ok, how about this..... the by-pass killed NC's chances of becoming a booming ski town ?

Oh, if it was only that simple.

Seems to be a fair amount of fact-based comments in his post.  At least as it pertains to Gore.  Bathrooms and parking are an issue.  As is the horrible underutilization of Burnt Ridge.  

X and I have this same argument every time we make a long drive to ski. I get where he is coming from but selfishly don't want what he wants.  For one thing... if the mileage limit keeps Gore as the tree skiing capital of NY I am good with that.

One point we disagree on... I think it's hard to make the argument in 2015 that Whiteface is favored over Gore by ORDA.

Let's not start this LP vs Gore crap again.  How can it be said that WF is favored over Gore?

Orda has spent much more in recent years on Gore than on WF.  The replcement vs a rehab like the LWF underwent  on the Triple, the new lift and terrian pod at the Sno bowl both came without comparable spending at WF. NC is not LP and that is the difference.  There just is not destination appeal compared to LP.

WF suffers from the same mileage limits as Gore and is hemmed in by forever wild land which prevent any expansion efforts unlike what Gore recently has been able to do.

The convention center was funded separately and was not in the Orda capex budget.

Gore  also has some design issues that limit its appeal to key demographics of young families and snowboarders with all the flat spots.  If you took out the 2+ miles of flat spots out you could add your 3 more trails on BR.

All I know is, if Gore was more crowded, I wouldn't go there. Sort of a variation on Yogi Berra's "nobody goes there because it too crowded" thing.

Benny Profane wrote

All I know is, if Gore was more crowded, I wouldn't go there. Sort of a variation on Yogi Berra's "nobody goes there because it too crowded" thing.

True. This thread's discussion pops up all the time here. If NC ever did get booming ( and the mtn with it ) then the discussion would be a perennial one of lamentation......

Look that up in your Funk and Wagnall.

 Gore has way more acres than Whiteface. Therefore, they have to make way more snow to achieve the "90%" snowmaking that they claim. Gore also has a newer gondola, and two HS quads while WF has one. Parking lots: lots of ski resorts have this problem. I've seen much worse, and the last thing I think about when I go to Gore is finding a parking space. Come on, if you're skiing you're obviously in good shape, right?  😛   Carry your stuff 500' if you have to, it will make you appreciate the lift more. North creek will never compete with Lake Placid. LP is an Olympic town, and a Hockey town, and many people in NYC have at least heard of it. There's way more to do there than just eat, sleep and ski. North creek is no more likely to become "Ski Famous" than is Roxbury for having Plattekill within it, or Hunter for having Hunter Mountain in it. It's just a stupid, yes classic  little town in ADK. I think ORDA is doing a fine job managing these places. I honestly could point out plenty of issues at Whiteface, but I chose not to, because its splitting hairs. Every ski area has its pros and cons, and you have to chose which set of issues you'd rather deal with wherever you go. Don't make other people's problems your problem.

Has anyone here been to Belleayre? Its another NY-owned ski area and it's small, yes always mobbed. Maybe they figure they can spread out the revenue among the three resorts, and keep Gore as one of those "best keps secrets" for us die hards. If that's the case, I'm not complaining.

I like to tell myself that it all comes back to the money issue. If there was more of it available, the mountain would be better. There'd be more money to pay good employees, more to hire people to maintain tree trails, more to lobby NYS for increases in mileage limits, more for North Creek connections, etc.

In reality, though, I think you have to start blaming management and marketing at some point. I try to take the "I like that Gore is relatively uncrowded because of screwups" frame of mind, but I just end up getting disappointed. The gap between "what is" and "what could be" is just too big.

On Mountain Lodging.

Every time these "Why isn't Gore doing better", "Why isn't Whiteface doing better" threads pop up about how these mountains don't spend their money well or operate properly, those people look over one massive missing piece of revenue/profit. Resort owned, on mountain lodging.

Whiteface and Gore don't have it, and barring a change in the NYS Consistution never will. For most skiers/riders North Creek is just one of dozens and dozens of small villages that never will be anything more now than a cute village in the modern ski economy. Their time as being apart of the destination for lodging came and went. It is right? No, but its reality.

Whiteface as a destination, while not making up for the revenue from the lack of resort own lodging, gets the higher traffic because of Lake Placid. As a ski town its unparalleled on the east coast. Nothing ORDA can do will ever make North Creek that, you can't infuse historical importance.

Whiteface, Gore and Belleayre don't have the revenue stream. Gore will never be Stratton, Okemo, Stowe, etc without it. Its what the mass majority of spendy money ski people want.

That being said, I think they do a pretty good job considering that huge void of cash flow in getting these mountains up to speed every year.

mattchuck2 wrote

I like to tell myself that it all comes back to the money issue. If there was more of it available, the mountain would be better. There'd be more money to pay good employees, more to hire people to maintain tree trails, more to lobby NYS for increases in mileage limits, more for North Creek connections, etc.

In reality, though, I think you have to start blaming management and marketing at some point. I try to take the "I like that Gore is relatively uncrowded because of screwups" frame of mind, but I just end up getting disappointed. The gap between "what is" and "what could be" is just too big.

Do you really think that management is the root cause behind the way Gore is run? I think the root cause lies higher - that Gore, WF and Bell are the way they are because of the APA, the DEC and ORDA - they are a business run by a political machine and it's that machine that decides the management. As an example, if you work for a middle manager who is an idiot but he plays golf with the CEO do you blame the idiot or the CEO who keeps him there.

All and all though, Gore is pretty much just fine. All this yearly speculation is merely people wishing for more and dreaming of what " could be ". That's human nature. Incidentally, it's also what Sno gets bashed for when he hopes for 100 % snowmaking and HSQs.

Snowballs wrote

All and all though, Gore is pretty much just fine. All this yearly speculation is merely people wishing for more and dreaming of what " could be ". That's human nature. Incidentally, it's also what Sno gets bashed for when he hopes for 100 % snowmaking and HSQs.

^+1

my only knock on gore is the ticket sales. way to slow. should not take 20 minutes to buy a ticket. even WF has figured it out. gore is about the terrain, it rocks. and for that i will put up with the lousy parking , less then stellar facilities and slow lifts.

If you parked at Ski Bowl it would take you 30 secs to buy a ticket

If more people buy tickets there they will blow more snow there

Coach Z wrote

If you parked at Ski Bowl it would take you 30 secs to buy a ticket

If more people buy tickets there they will blow more snow there

But dad,,,, it's hardly open.

it takes 30 seconds to buy a ticket at any mountain on the plant..... except gore.