Tales from Work: The Good and the Bad

PeeTex wrote

Long commutes are evil, not only are they expensive but they suck the life out of you.

+1000

Harvey wrote

I believe that following his example is good for America and the world.

Sorry Harvey, but you are veering into someone’s lala land there.  Like it or not, the world isn’t structured to allow for everyone to exist by MMM’s idealized (?....try unrealistic) standard.  If they did America and the World would crumble.  Sometimes you have to accept you can’t change the world we live in, and choose to help make it a better place by doing the hard work, the crucial work, that people like MC seem unwilling to.  Honestly, for more than 20 years I’ve had a longer commute than anyone here, I’m sure.  You need the right people, in the right places, doing work for important organizations and ethical companies.  If I, or someone like me, didn’t make the commute I made for years from NY to Atlanta, or endure the 4 hour daily commute to NYC (no life sucked out, yet), then cures that come out of the CDC would cease to exist and public infrastructure would crumble.  You really want to live in that world?  Guys like MC should be thanking guys like me, guys who make the roads, trains, subways, airports, public spaces, etc., etc., etc., he clamors for possible, instead he calls us idiots!

But, as long as someone else is there to make the commutes and do the work that the MC’s of the world won’t, I guess that’s ok?  That’s truly the sad thing here....

Not sure why you are sorry, we disagree.

I believe in saving and trying to reduce wasteful consumption.

My goal is to eliminate spending on things I really don't want or need, and save for the future.

Is my job somehow less valuable because I don't commute?

If that's lala land that's where I live.

MMM is all about not buying into the over consumption of our society and making smart decisions.

I think JTG is mainly referring to the criticism of the long commutes. Around metro NY and many other big cities- and in many professions- it’s just not practical to be picky.

Harvey wrote

Is my job somehow less valuable because I don't commute?

Talk about missing the point.

As a personal choice, following MMM’s advice is ok.  Good on you that you found a way to provide a valuable and vital service in a way that allows you to avoid wasteful commutes for you and your employees.  I respect that.

However, to say that’s the right choice for America and everyone should do it?  That’s entirely unrealistic given the world we live in.  Do you disagree?

it seems like business is becoming very remote outside of construction and manufacturing operations.

I know several people who do long commutes to major transit hubs and it definitely has a negative impact on their quality of life.

I can't say I'm really "following" MMM. I learned about him long after I made my choices. But I agree with his approach.

I don't claim to be doing anything valuable beyond supporting my family. I like my work, but I'm under no illusion that I'm provide a higher value to society beyond paying taxes.

For me the short commute is a goal. I found a company I wanted to work for, in a town that was reasonably nice and bought a house there. Many of our employees enjoy reasonable commutes, others travel much farther than I would.

I believe many people commute long distances because they can't afford or don't want to live in a place where they can make "enough" money.  When your definition of enough is reduced, it increases your options.

Yes, I think people should strive for a short commute, save their money and consume less. Life is so much better. That's my opinion. I don't think it is a bad choice for America.  Yea maybe it's not realistic for everyone.

Everybody has got to follow their own path. What’s not good for me might be someone else’s dream gig.

Productive folks often create jobs. I like eating and I bet you all do too.

That being said productivity has historically been the end of every successful civilization. Yup, too much consumption has brought every booming society to an end.

Personally less is more imho. Consumerism can be a disease and a prison sentence.

Harvey wrote

Yea maybe it's not realistic for everyone.

Which is what my point was, and it’s not just a function of personal choice or being picky.  Sure, people get an education in a particular area and gain specific subject matter expertise in their life.  Yes, those people eventually have to go where the jobs are that utilize those skills, which may necessitate a commute.  But it’s not just personal choice.  Society at large needs people to take those jobs, commutes and all.  My company and career is a case in point.  Large A/E Design firms like mine that work on major infrastructure projects are almost always headquartered in large cities, like NYC.  They have to be in order to attract and retain the thousands of qualified professionals, engineers and accountants and others, required to make a reality the infrastructure projects people like MC agree are vital and necessary.

Sometimes I feel like telling him....son, we live in a world that has jobs, and those jobs have to be manned by people with educations and expertise. Who's gonna do it? You? You, MC? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for MMM, and you curse long commutes. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that long commutes, while tragic, make our society function; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, makes lives possible.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me commuting to that job -- you need me commuting to that job.

We use words like "corporate responsibility," "conference rooms," "meetings." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent creating something society needs. You use them as a punch line.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who drives and rides under the convenience of the very infrastructure projects that I help to provide and then questions the manner in which I help to provide them.

I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a train ticket, make the commute, and work a job. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think!

I have been fortunate to have 15min commute, unfortunately that will change. It is what it is..
Like JTG my wife works in NYC and has 4 hr a day commute,she deals with it, but is more pissed about the cost..Close to 400/month..

On a more humorous note, I worked in a government office where it took 3 people to water the plants.  There was the retarded guy who did the watering, another guy to supervise the retarded guy and a third to escort them in the secure facility.

The bad ---- it's getting harder and harder to find people who want to work. It's taken me 3 months to find 2 more people for my dept in preparation for our move. Luckily I found 2 really good ones

That said, I'm lucky that I don't have a high rate of turnover. The current sales floor I have now have been with me for years. The 2 new hires are the first I've hired in 5 years.

JTG4eva!,  I think you're missing the point. No one is saying that your job isn't valuable to society or a worthwhile vocation. I'm sure that even you would prefer a shorter commute. There are a lot of valid reasons for people having a long commute. But there are a lot of people who have a long commute that never think about the costs financially or personally.
I've been lucky to have had a relatively short commute for most of the 36 years since I graduated from college. But from 2008 to 2015 I had 1 hr. morning commute and a 1:15 commute on the way home. I had been out of my industry for a number of years because, as a single dad, I had to take a lower paying job, where I didn't have to travel, to be around to take my kids to activities, doctors, etc. So to get back into the industry I had to take what I could get. It was a great job for the first 6 years but I hated the commute. There was a change in management and my position at work so I started looking for something closer. I took a new job 4 years ago for 15% less salary with a 20 minute commute with absolutely no traffic and I couldn't be happier. I did the math like MMM and I am saving a fortune on gas and wear and tear on my car. The new company has flexible hours to I work 7:00 - 3:30 and can be home sitting on my deck by 4:00 instead of at 6:15 in the past. And I can ski at night again. (the last job was in the opposite direction)
I go against the flow of traffic in the morning and evening. I see all the people who chose a "less expensive or bigger" house away from the jobs who are now spending the savings and time on commuting and probably spending more than if they bought a more expensive house (or in most cases a smaller house for the same money) without the long commute.
Younger people today saw their parents doing the long commutes and they don't want the long commute or the McMansion where most of the space goes unused and where they spend all weekend cutting the huge lawn that they never use. Neighborhoods in cities are being "regentrified" because they want walkable communities rather than suburban sprawl and a long commute.

Trackbiker.....I get the point.  Foregoing a commute for less money is a valid choice for some, probably could be for many more.  I’m glad it worked for you.  Others should do the math.  I’m not arguing with you.

My point is that it’s foolish for anyone to imply that doing so is a viable solution for the entire workforce.  It’s just not.  Not because people want to have valuable jobs and worthwhile vocations in the big city.  I couldn’t care less about that.  I’m not special or valuable.  I’m a gear in a clock.  Maybe one of the bigger gears perhaps, but just a gear.  Yes, I help what is a pretty important clock chime and I’m pretty good at what I do....but if I didn’t do it someone else with similar skills and expertise would.  Point is, while I may not be important, like many at my company the job I do is necessary, and somebody has got to do it, and that requires people commuting.  It’s a fact of life, without which society would crumble.  So having the MCs of the world sit on their perceived high horses and tell people they are foolish for commuting is.....foolish!

JT, I feel you man. I often think when people mention to back the blue or support the troops, I'm thinking we should also thank an engineer and many other occupations. It's not every day I'm in a situation to need protection per se, but I sure as hell appreciate buildings not falling on me, my truck stopping on a dime, and my kids getting safely to school.
   So let me know if you need some curtainwall, k?

D.B. Cooper wrote

On a more humorous note, I worked in a government office where it took 3 people to water the plants.  There was the retarded guy who did the watering, another guy to supervise the retarded guy and a third to escort them in the secure facility.

I can respect the developmentally disabled who try.

Johnnyonthespot wrote

JT, I feel you man. I often think when people mention to back the blue or support the troops, I'm thinking we should also thank an engineer and many other occupations. It's not every day I'm in a situation to need protection per se, but I sure as hell appreciate buildings not falling on me, my truck stopping on a dime, and my kids getting safely to school.
   So let me know if you need some curtainwall, k?

Well said Johnny..Next time your are in NYC and have a glass of water. You can thank my daughter. She designed the underground holding tank for the new Kenisco water pipeline...

JTG4eva! wrote

My point is that it’s foolish for anyone to imply that doing so is a viable solution for the entire workforce.  It’s just not.  Not because people want to have valuable jobs and worthwhile vocations in the big city...  Point is, while I may not be important, like many at my company the job I do is necessary, and somebody has got to do it, and that requires people commuting.  It’s a fact of life, without which society would crumble.  So having the MCs of the world sit on their perceived high horses and tell people they are foolish for commuting is.....foolish!

These are political problems with political solutions, though. If we allowed developers to build more housing near where people worked, allowed more people to work from home, created more bike Lanes, or improved public transportation systems, we could cut down on commuting times.

Also, I never said commuting was foolish. I commute 12 minutes to work every day. Then I commute 18 minutes back home every evening.

That's wicked cool Jason