The latest ORDA Screwup

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MC2 5678F589 MC2 5678F589
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x10003q x10003q
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I owned a place at Gore for about 25 years from the mid 1980s until a few years ago. I eventually realized that Gore never ran right and will never run right. Things are always askew - so much potential and so much disappointment. The combination of NYS owned, uneven money flow that has no relationship to what Gore needs or how Gore performs, and a management team favoring Lake Placid, will keep Gore in this purgatory. Nobody in Lake Placid/ORDA management will be taken to task for why Gore still averages around 200K-210K visits per year after the massive expansion since 2005. Governor Pataki was convinced to pour money into Gore because of a study about increasing visits at Gore to financially help the surrounding area. This never happened.

How is the Front Street development doing? It was approved by the APA in April, 2008. We just has an almost decade long bull market.

One more fun thing to remember - the Gore Gondola will be 20 years old soon(installed in 1999). Anybody think there has been any planning for its eventual replacement?

Snowhunter Snowhunter
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Gondola down again this morning.
I also read that it didn't start running until around noon yesterday.

On a positive note at least they had the ADK Express running on a weekday.  Sadly I take that as a sign that they were expecting gondola problems.

As others have said, the mountain has such great potential but never seems to live up to it.  I've had many great days there and yet I often find myself wondering what if.......
Carv-R Carv-R
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ORDA is a case study of why capitalism outperforms socialism.  In the towering and regimented NYS bureaucracy, there's little incentive for management excellence.  

Hence large capital investments are (occasionally) made (wiith enormous Albany chest-thumping) but important (& relatively inexpensive) operational details are overlooked.
Details like: preventive maintenance on the lifts, the bare metal footrests on Gore's older chairlifts, missing windows and rattling sheet metal inside the gondolas, or the regular maintenance to keep them rolling.  

Or trimming small trees on the slopes before winter arrives.  Pictured is Gore's Uncas trail on November 18th, opening day.  It's the only way to get from the top of the gondola to the Straight Brook lift.  
NYS allegedly spent more than a million $ upgrading Gore this year, but missed these simple and inexpensive functions.
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Z Z
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This is exactly what I was hoping with this thread.  A good and comprehensive collection for all 3 resorts of what is wrong and needs to be fixed.

This is not finger pointing at the employees.  I well know Orda treats it’s employees like dog poop.  A case in pint is they will furlow employees that are close to getting health benefits.  The better ones in this economy just move onto better jobs.  I know a former top electrical mait guy that said screw it im done with Orda and got a way better construction job.  That guy was irreplaceable.  Except for the not rocket scientists working in parking lots or cashiers that can’t make change the workers try.  The issue is more related to the poor quality of the schools east of WF imo. My only beef is the lifties that don’t clear snow from chairs or take forever to prep them in morning but they again may be lack of proper supervision.

The issue is directly related to management trying to save themselves to making money and it just doesn’t work well in the real competitive market when Epic and ikon are trying to do it by spending more.  Also top management lacks strategic thinking and vision of what each mountain should be and thus what the product really is and how they are marketed.

Keep it coming
if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time
PeeTex PeeTex
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Z wrote

The issue is directly related to management trying to save themselves to making money and it just doesn’t work well in the real competitive market when Epic and ikon are trying to do it by spending more.  Also top management lacks strategic thinking and vision of what each mountain should be and thus what the product really is and how they are marketed.
You hire a guy and tell him to go run a couple of ski areas and surrounding venues. He lays out a plan and a bunch of contingencies to map out a successful season. Then along comes Czar Cuomo, he gets on the phone and demands this or that get done or opened and you go hire this contractor buddy of mine and there goes your plan - he fucked it all up. You do this a couple of times and the attitude of "I don't give a shit any more" filters down.  A worker who protests - off to the gulag with you.
Don't ski the trees, ski the spaces between the trees.
MC2 5678F589 MC2 5678F589
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PeeTex wrote
. Then along comes Czar Cuomo, he gets on the phone and demands this or that get done or opened and you go hire this contractor buddy of mine and there goes your plan - he fucked it all up. You do this a couple of times and the attitude of "I don't give a shit any more" filters down.  A worker who protests - off to the gulag with you.
Now do Trump.
Johnnyonthespot Johnnyonthespot
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X crushed my dreams and Carv-R hit the nail on the head.
MC2 5678F589 MC2 5678F589
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In reply to this post by Z
I agree that employee morale is shit, but I think Coach is closer to the right reason for it.

State agencies (and the people who work for them) are subject to budgetary restrictions that giant corporate behemoths aren't. If MTN stock goes up in price, suddenly Vail Resorts has a bunch of money to play with. If NY collects more tax revenue, who the hell wants that money to be spent on a new High Peaks Chair besides us on this forum? Even if MTN takes out too many loans and goes the way of ASC, okay, whatever, the company failed. That's not really an option for the State. So they just have a bunch of penny-pinching misers as bosses who try to squeeze and harass employees instead of actually trying to make the skiing experience more enjoyable (and for dumb reasons! A certain manager didn't  want drunk ski instructors around, so Gore Employees didn't get the bar discount that WF employees got. Then he got promoted and hey, now that's the all-ORDA policy. Meanwhile, Killington snagged a bunch of former Gore Employees by offering better pay, better benefits, and an awesome bar discount where you can put your buddy's drinks on the tab, too).

I hate to go all snoloco, but the most glaring blunder that ORDA has made is the shitty snowmaking investment. If these ski areas want to survive in the future, they're gonna have to make more snow faster. That just seems like common sense.
x10003q x10003q
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Re: The latest Orda Screwup

In light of the High Peaks Chair mention, here is some information from the 2002 GORE UMP:

Here is the description of lift #6 -
" 1967 Riblet Double - parts from 1987 Riblet and 1996 CTEC."
page 2-7

Here is the proposal:
"Replace and Re-extend Lift #6
Lift #6, the High Peaks Chair, will be replaced with a new quad lift and will be re-extended  in its existing cleared lift line to its former termination point. (The existing lift uses a smaller drive which is why the existing termination point falls short)."
page 4-3

So the 2002 UMP wanted to replace the Frankenstein High Peaks chair and here we are, 16 years later, and still no replacement. Also, there was a proposal to "replace the 17 year old Ad Express Triple, the oldest HS lift in North America" (in 2002). That only took another 12 years to replace it with the current HSQ (Dec 2014).

These 2 lift delays help define the mess that is Gore. How much money is wasted keeping these old lifts going? Clearly, there is no capital budgeting. I cannot even imagine what the staff has to do to keep Gore running.

If you want some fun reading, hit the link.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_forests_pdf/gore2002ump.pdf


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