The latest ORDA Screwup

JTG - you did the right thing IMO.  If you don't like the product, find another.

Love the vibe at gore and WF.   The family vibe at gore and the racing vibe at WF.   CS just curious where is your home hill?  

Where is QC you mentioned?   If Quebec I agree that is fun.   From the small hills above VT to MSA and wow is Massif cool!    Gotta hit Massif South one day.  

Hoser wrote

CS just curious where is your home hill?  

I don't have one.  I don't buy season passes and I haven't in many years.

Why?  I'd get bored skiing the same place more a few times a year.

I used to buy 10 packs to places near me and split them with friends.  I'd also buy the 4? packs that Gore used to sell.  Mostly I used to chase snow and ski XC/XCD though (rarely skiing the same place twice).  Now I don't have the means to do that, so I just ski in my "backyard" when I can.  I might buy a few tickets a year.  Midweek.  Usually at place that is pretty cheap like Hunt Hollow.

Bristol Mtn is the closest "big" hill to me.  I used to live in Naples, so I've skied there A LOT.  It's changed a lot too, but I'm still not that crazy about it.  It's not all that big or varied in it's terrain.  It tends to be pretty crowded on the weekends and holidays.  They groom (or used to) even when there's fresh.  The most interesting (to me) trails tend to be really icy because of their exposure - but they have decent pitch and aren't a mile wide.

So anyway, blah, blah, blah I could bitch about Bristol, but I just don't ski there.  Maybe once or twice every couple years.  But I'm a drop in the bucket.  But my point is I can think of better ways to spend my money.

Z wrote

Ptex you pulled that quote from Yukon.  FYI I Have not worked for Orda since last December.  My life is too busy to deal with that any longer

You also error in assuming Orda cares what any passholders say.  What matters to management is what the business owners in LP think as they are linked to the board members
If lodging reservations start getting cancelled do to lack of open terrain while VT areas are 100% open or close to that Pratt will be dealing with some problems

OK Z - I did not know you stopped sucking the ORDA tit. You now have the right to bitch - just like Matty, although he bitches about everything (and anything).

PS QC is the abbreviation for Quebec, yes.

wf Gondi running sooo slow today.   20 minutes to top.   Long lines.  At least only loading six on a cabin.   They have a maintenance issue something about a pin.  Coming offline Monday to fix it.   LWF loading all chairs.  Sounds like balance issue on it is fixed.   Btw skiing is really good here

Smething is definitely wrong with the Gondi.  My guess is it’s been wrong for awhile hence the effort to lower the load by only putting 6 in a car and it’s now getting worse

LWF was running full speed and no every other chair but since it was over heating and it’s super cold maybe that resolves the issue albeit short term.

Something odd is also going on with snowmaking.  In past if WF blew on a trail it was full out blowing.  Started on Skyward today but only 4 guns.  With 4 other guns on top of Parkway and a random gun here and here.  I don’t get it.  The quality of the snow blown is just not the same as last year.  Something is definately wrong.

JTG4eva! wrote

I don’t know how many people may have noticed, or care about, changes at WF.  Yeah, you can write me off as one of five, and I’m not going to buy as many lift tickets there.  Drop in the WF bucket, who cares?

But maybe they should?  

I’ve been going to WF every year for some 30 years now.  It’s exclusively been my family’s ski destination that entire time.  I had few and far between day trips that weren’t to WF.  Maybe I always thought Sno was a wet behind the ears kid, and curmudgeon fit Z well.....heck, through last year I always defended WF.....but they were on to something early.

I’d think when a customer who has been 30 years loyal, and has spent a lot of money on ski trips to LP/WF over that time, gets turned off.......it should be something they care about.

Or not.  I’m kind of excited to rediscover VT.

Curmudgeon - nope
I’m the carnary in the coal mine.  I’m there a lot for one plus  I’ve worked for 30 years in the industry at 4 other ski areas including at Killington so I know how a well run ski area functions or doesn’t.  Anyone else have those qualifications besides MC?

That skiers like JT are voting with thier dollars to go elsewhere is something that will start to impact skier visits.  When you own real estate locally it limits my options.  I bought my house during a different management.  Jay Rand was great - he brought us the gondi, facelift, improved snowmaking, and the slides.  He understood that it was an expert Mt and how to market it

I’ve seen this mess coming for years.  Talk to just about any local and the words commonly used lately is stunning levels of incompetence.  

Z wrote

That skiers like JT are voting with thier dollars to go elsewhere is something that will start to impact skier visits.  When you own real estate locally it limits my options.  I bought my house during a different management.  Jay Rand was great - he brought us the gondi, facelift, improved snowmaking, and the slides.  He understood that it was an expert Mt and how to market it

I’ve seen this mess coming for years.  Talk to just about any local and the words commonly used lately is stunning levels of incompetence.

Not happening yet, last years Whiteface Revenue was up, skiier vists up over the last three years and almost back to 2014 levels.  This year may be different but there's a whole lot left to the season.

Well, I'll chime in with my take. I wasn't a long time Gore/WF skier until I moved to Saratoga in '04, and fell in love with Gore. But, I've told the story more than once how I was astonished that Gore was hardly open on a Tuesday way back after a foot of snow, and then last year I showed up on a Monday and only two chairs were running, and late at that. Both times the excuse was, well, it's a weekday, with a "what did you expect" look on their faces. Actually, last year's Monday event was also excused as, well, we are understaffed. Well, duh. I calmly explained to the woman that I drive about four hours to get to this good stuff, and, sorry, I will no longer ever ever be doing that to the ADK, because I know that, at least, Killington will be running a lot of chairs to very well maintained trails, along with a lot of the other private hills in Vermont. I'm not going to get burned again, and I'll be sure to warn anybody I know, real or virtual friends, to do the same. It's sad, because I love to stay in Saratoga, which is cheap and still has the bars and restaraunts in the winter, and do the easy one hour drive north in the morning. Much better than Vermont in that respect.
Now, this not only casts a bad light upon the two ORDA hills up there, it also has to hurt local businesses and real estate. I'm always looking to move up north again, but, if I cant depend on the ski hills being managed well, I'm moving to a place where they are, and I'll bet many feel the same as I do.

Z wrote

I’m there a lot for one plus  I’ve worked for 30 years in the industry at 4 other ski areas including at Killington so I know how a well run ski area functions or doesn’t.  Anyone else have those qualifications besides MC?

3 ski areas, nearly 15 years in total.

PeeTex wrote

Z wrote

That skiers like JT are voting with thier dollars to go elsewhere is something that will start to impact skier visits.  When you own real estate locally it limits my options.  I bought my house during a different management.  Jay Rand was great - he brought us the gondi, facelift, improved snowmaking, and the slides.  He understood that it was an expert Mt and how to market it

I’ve seen this mess coming for years.  Talk to just about any local and the words commonly used lately is stunning levels of incompetence.

Not happening yet, last years Whiteface Revenue was up, skiier vists up over the last three years and almost back to 2014 levels.  This year may be different but there's a whole lot left to the season.

The comparisons to last year are going to very ugly because last year Orda was on the Max pass and now is not connected to a group like that.  

D.B. Cooper wrote

Z wrote

I’m there a lot for one plus  I’ve worked for 30 years in the industry at 4 other ski areas including at Killington so I know how a well run ski area functions or doesn’t.  Anyone else have those qualifications besides MC?

3 ski areas, nearly 15 years in total.

Me too!!!! Pick me, pick me, pick me

I've been safety patrol, host patrol, security, full cert ski instructor, snowmaker (night shift), and in maintenance (electrician). Oh shit I forgot, was a bouncer too ----- 2 areas ----- most fun was security, most fun with the nurses out of Quebec was teaching

Don't mean shit

I just wanted to post in the screwup  thread

campgottagopee wrote

D.B. Cooper wrote

Z wrote

I’m there a lot for one plus  I’ve worked for 30 years in the industry at 4 other ski areas including at Killington so I know how a well run ski area functions or doesn’t.  Anyone else have those qualifications besides MC?

3 ski areas, nearly 15 years in total.

Me too!!!! Pick me, pick me, pick me

I've been safety patrol, host patrol, security, full cert ski instructor, snowmaker (night shift), and in maintenance (electrician). Oh shit I forgot, was a bouncer too ----- 2 areas ----- most fun was security, most fun with the nurses out of Quebec was teaching

Don't mean shit

I just wanted to post in the screwup  thread

Camp wins the credibility game. I only worked at 2 resorts a hundred years ago and I don’t ski Gore or WF all that much so I guess nobody needs my opinion but I too wanted to post in the screw up thread. Belle seems competently run most times I’ve been there for what it’s worth...

By the way, what the hell is safety patrol? Is that like being an ambassador or were you just holding a lot of safety meetings?

Is this the broken pipe?

Of course I helped him up.

No that just one o'clock conditions...and if there aint fish under it it ain't ice.

That's it. The pipes are on skiers left on the downhill side. It grows every week. It was zero degrees this weekend and there was a constant fresh flow of water across it. As soon as you skied over it, the water froze instantly to your skis.

Take this with as many grains of salt as you want to (heard it from a guy on the WF gondola who says he worked for ORDA until a few years ago), but Whiteface has been losing snowmakers recently.

Brownski wrote

By the way, what the hell is safety patrol? Is that like being an ambassador or were you just holding a lot of safety meetings?

I was in HS, we went skiing and helped people who were in need. Helped kids get up, adults put their skis back on, etc etc. That's just what they called us. We had jackets and on the back they said safety patrol, or host patrol, or something like that. Hey I got to ski for free so why not.