The latest ORDA Screwup

Z wrote

PeeTex wrote

Z wrote

That skiers like JT are voting with thier dollars to go elsewhere is something that will start to impact skier visits.  When you own real estate locally it limits my options.  I bought my house during a different management.  Jay Rand was great - he brought us the gondi, facelift, improved snowmaking, and the slides.  He understood that it was an expert Mt and how to market it

I’ve seen this mess coming for years.  Talk to just about any local and the words commonly used lately is stunning levels of incompetence.

Not happening yet, last years Whiteface Revenue was up, skiier vists up over the last three years and almost back to 2014 levels.  This year may be different but there's a whole lot left to the season.

The comparisons to last year are going to very ugly because last year Orda was on the Max pass and now is not connected to a group like that.

Yup. Count me in on that one.

campgottagopee wrote

Brownski wrote

By the way, what the hell is safety patrol? Is that like being an ambassador or were you just holding a lot of safety meetings?

I was in HS, we went skiing and helped people who were in need. Helped kids get up, adults put their skis back on, etc etc. That's just what they called us. We had jackets and on the back they said safety patrol, or host patrol, or something like that. Hey I got to ski for free so why not.

Ah, alright. Now I understand. Free skiing is always good.

frk wrote

That's it. The pipes are on skiers left on the downhill side. It grows every week. It was zero degrees this weekend and there was a constant fresh flow of water across it. As soon as you skied over it, the water froze instantly to your skis.

So do I understand correctly that they have a busted pipe that they haven’t fixed and they also haven’t shut off the water to it? That’s much worse thenI thought. I think I saw that they broke a pipe but I assumed they shut off the water and drained the line. How long has this been going on?

Brownski wrote

frk wrote

That's it. The pipes are on skiers left on the downhill side. It grows every week. It was zero degrees this weekend and there was a constant fresh flow of water across it. As soon as you skied over it, the water froze instantly to your skis.

So do I understand correctly that they have a busted pipe that they haven’t fixed and they also haven’t shut off the water to it? That’s much worse thenI thought. I think I saw that they broke a pipe but I assumed they shut off the water and drained the line. How long has this been going on?

Brownski wrote

frk wrote

That's it. The pipes are on skiers left on the downhill side. It grows every week. It was zero degrees this weekend and there was a constant fresh flow of water across it. As soon as you skied over it, the water froze instantly to your skis.

So do I understand correctly that they have a busted pipe that they haven’t fixed and they also haven’t shut off the water to it? That’s much worse thenI thought. I think I saw that they broke a pipe but I assumed they shut off the water and drained the line. How long has this been going on?

Relax kids, it's not a leak, it's a natural spring.

Now for the news...Marketing was quite pumped up in yesterday's conditions report regarding the opening of Sagamore, as the guns had been blasting it for days. The report stated that the BRQ would open at 9:30, but when I arrived, the girls at the info desk said, "just an FYI, the BRQ will not be opening until Noon." So of course I asked if they knew what the holdup was as the lift ran all weekend, but alas, that was privileged info, of which the customers are not given access to. "Ironic" thing was that the report did not change all day of showing the lift as open.
And to add fuel to the conspiracy theory, there is not any mention of Sagamore or BRQ in today's report, and the lift is listed as closed.
I have my super sleuth hat on, and I will do my best to uncover the truth, because we deserve the truth!

^^^^^This is why I like this place.

Gondola is not running today. We’re waiting for AE2 to open.  

mm

Wonder if the WF Gondi was brought down, repaired, and back up as planned.  

Down in the am, up around 1 pm from my best guess, as it was running sometime close to then. I didn't pat attention to the time closely.

JTG4eva! wrote

Or not.  I’m kind of excited to rediscover VT.

My 22 y.o. son (avid WF skier) back from Mt. Snow weekend..his words, "after skiing WF, not much vert at Snow". He didn't sound too thrilled or impressed. Understand the point about terrain at WF not being open, but most often despite limited terrain, WF better than most places in VT, shit conditions or not. Emphasis on most.

My other son skied this past Saturday morning at WF and came back satisfied and happy after his outing. "Hard and fast" he said. "I like it like that". So the point is ….different strokes for different folks. Granted he couldn't ski Skyward or other advanced terrain, but managed to enjoy himself nonetheless. Others mileage will vary for sure, but again...gonna stick with the different strokes for different folks mindset.

I hear ya.  Sky will probably be open, if the snowstorm comes off conditions will be great, I found some Chevy tickets on eBay......won’t take much for all to be forgiven this weekend.  Perhaps.

A few relevant notes, however.  I don’t plan on rediscovering things like Mount Snow.  There’s a lot of mediocre in VT.  Time spent in VT will be at MRG, Sugarbush, Magic, Stowe.  Those places can all compete with WF for terrain, Mount Snow (and the like) can’t.  Heck, maybe even give K’ton a shot.  

Yeah, I get the young’uns tearing up the fast and firm and having a great time.  I’ve had my days to do that....and anymore I’m about quality over quantity.  Firm groomers just ain’t my thang, not these days!

Darkside Shaman wrote

Relax kids, it's not a leak, it's a natural spring.

Now for the news...Marketing was quite pumped up in yesterday's conditions report regarding the opening of Sagamore, as the guns had been blasting it for days. The report stated that the BRQ would open at 9:30, but when I arrived, the girls at the info desk said, "just an FYI, the BRQ will not be opening until Noon." So of course I asked if they knew what the holdup was as the lift ran all weekend, but alas, that was privileged info, of which the customers are not given access to. "Ironic" thing was that the report did not change all day of showing the lift as open.
And to add fuel to the conspiracy theory, there is not any mention of Sagamore or BRQ in today's report, and the lift is listed as closed.
I have my super sleuth hat on, and I will do my best to uncover the truth, because we deserve the truth!

Ha! Thanks for clearing that up!

Bunny, I'm wit-chu on this.  EPIC pass + Gore inconsistency have drawn me & family away from Gore.  Still own a place up there but now rent it out for the season.

Ok, so here's the poop from the super sleuth...

BRQ did open yesterday afternoon, but only with access to Echo. Which, of course, now leads one to ask, hmmm why did they not open Sagamore after multiple days of snowmaking and the marketing dept ballyhoo on the conditions report??? 2 words...Gack Attack
So today, no BRQ at all, as Gore mgmt tries to catch up with snowmaking on Echo, because there is a major race this weekend. Which means that Echo will be closed al weekend, so all of those that want to ski BRQ, be prepared to skate, and that will be sooo much fun on Sunday with over 2' of fresh
And as was mentioned in a previous post, yes the gondi was down again all morning, but this was a totally new snafu, as the lift attendant at the top of the lift started hearing a banging noise up in the gantry, so he called lift maint. who then found issues in the way the "upgrades" were installed this summer. Yeah, you can"t make this shit up, ORDA is shit show and we are the studio audience, APPLAUSE NOW
So, with a delayed response, AE2 was slowly and I mean slowly put online, while the lift attendants for the lift 2 were transferred to the lift 6 so as to provide access to the summit. So all in all, roughly 2 hours of everyone's ski day was wasted.
And just again to point out, a HUGE shout out goes to the Gore employees that did what they could do to make a good day out of a shit show, and once again BOOO to Gore mgmt who once again show that they lack oversight and contingency planning, and of course never show their faces when there is a problem , and let the lifties and the CSR's deal with the unhappy customers.

Darkside Shaman wrote

 Which means that Echo will be closed al weekend, so all of those that want to ski BRQ, be prepared to skate, and that will be sooo much fun on Sunday with over 2' of fresh

Holy shit. You guys are complaining about a lift not being open on a huge mountain where there are multiple other good trail networks to ski, meanwhile we are supposedly getting 2' of fresh, and that's gonna put a damper on your fun this weekend?

If we get 2' of fresh Im sure they will have the traverse groomed flat, and i'm willing to bet you can ski the glades over there as well, if we really do get all this snow. If not, I'm sure all the snow will provide very fun conditions on the rest of the mountain.

Z,

Regarding the pipes, I doubt the pipes on Echo need to be replaced. That pipe is fairly new. It's shitty welding that causes breaks in pipes. I wonder if ORDA hires Union pipe fitters to do their welding, or if they pay Jack, who claims to have welding skills, and makes snow during the winter, 15 bucks an hour to weld over the summer?

Pipe welding is no joke. If it's not done perfect, corrosion can develop very quickly in the joints, and fail. To be a pipeliner, you have to pass some very intensive AWS welding tests that ultimately get X-rayed and graded. Something like 1 out of 10 people can pass this test. A buddy of mine spend 3 years trying to get his AWS cert.

Shaman, how come this hasn't been a problem previous years? I've been skiing and hiking gore for over 20 years and don't remember this as an issue before. I'm well aware of natural seepage, especially after periods of high precipitation like last fall. But seepage after several days of zero degrees, I'm skeptical.

frk wrote

Shaman, how come this hasn't been a problem previous years? I've been skiing and hiking gore for over 20 years and don't remember this as an issue before. I'm well aware of natural seepage, especially after periods of high precipitation like last fall. But seepage after several days of zero degrees, I'm skeptical.

Well, be skeptical all you want, I live here and know for sure that has been an area of wet and sometimes blue spots from just beyond the entrance to Lower Steilhang to past the entrance to Hullaballoo.

And Ethan, it's called sarcasm young grasshopper.

We had record rainfall this fall, and a decent amount of rain even in December. I've seen wet spots on my property this year that I've never seen before, so I am not skeptical. Do we know exactly where the pipes run? I don't remember all the details of the pipe layout at Gore. Some of the wet spots on my property that were in the way of my skiing I remediated by dumping a layer of #2 stone on top , and driving over it to work it into the mud. This helps to firm up the surface, and provide better snow adhesion. I'm in tight with an excavation guy and can get stone on speed dial.

Ski mountains should be doing the same during the fall to assure the snow sticks to their trails.

Ethan Snow wrote

We had record rainfall this fall, and a decent amount of rain even in December. I've seen wet spots on my property this year that I've never seen before, so I am not skeptical. Do we know exactly where the pipes run? I don't remember all the details of the pipe layout at Gore. Some of the wet spots on my property that were in the way of my skiing I remediated by dumping a layer of #2 stone on top , and driving over it to work it into the mud. This helps to firm up the surface, and provide better snow adhesion. I'm in tight with an excavation guy and can get stone on speed dial.

Ski mountains should be doing the same during the fall to assure the snow sticks to their trails.

Dude, thanks for the effort, but let it go.

Ethan Snow wrote

Darkside Shaman wrote

 Which means that Echo will be closed al weekend, so all of those that want to ski BRQ, be prepared to skate, and that will be sooo much fun on Sunday with over 2' of fresh

Holy shit. You guys are complaining about a lift not being open on a huge mountain where there are multiple other good trail networks to ski, meanwhile we are supposedly getting 2' of fresh, and that's gonna put a damper on your fun this weekend?

If we get 2' of fresh Im sure they will have the traverse groomed flat, and i'm willing to bet you can ski the glades over there as well, if we really do get all this snow. If not, I'm sure all the snow will provide very fun conditions on the rest of the mountain.

Z,

Regarding the pipes, I doubt the pipes on Echo need to be replaced. That pipe is fairly new. It's shitty welding that causes breaks in pipes. I wonder if ORDA hires Union pipe fitters to do their welding, or if they pay Jack, who claims to have welding skills, and makes snow during the winter, 15 bucks an hour to weld over the summer?

Pipe welding is no joke. If it's not done perfect, corrosion can develop very quickly in the joints, and fail. To be a pipeliner, you have to pass some very intensive AWS welding tests that ultimately get X-rayed and graded. Something like 1 out of 10 people can pass this test. A buddy of mine spend 3 years trying to get his AWS cert.

I'll bet you twenty bucks that, after most of that snow falls Sunday, that a lot of it wont be accessible on Monday because, well, it will be Monday, but, they'll be having a blast over at Killington on Monday.

Well, I'm glad you're not stressy about it. I guess I just like things to be done proper. A big wet spot in the middle of s ski slope doesn't look good, and presents dangers. when I go skiing, I want to see snow, not mud. It just looks better when everything is white. One look at the ground and I am reminded that there is in fact dirt down there somewhere, and it kinda kills my vibe. As Laszlo would say: " it's all about perception. If people gave a good perception they will come back."