The problem with snow making.

snoloco wrote

With the "Famous Clarkson Workload" I don't think I'll have time to hike up the mountain....

A day on a mountain is a day on a mountain.  That day can be spent in a variety of places, in a variety of ways.  It becomes about knowing or figuring out what you want out of that day, and what satisfies your Jonesing for the mountains.  It has nothing to do with 'not having time to hike up the mountain'.  You'll commit the same amount of time, it's just how you spend it.

People are just encouraging you to expand your horizons, that's all.  Skiing can be done at places other than a resort, and for much less money if you aren't paying for lift tickets.  That should be of interest to a college kid!

Sno.....what gets you jazzed about skiing?  What is it you find most enjoyable about a day on the hill?  I have no doubt that whatever your answer is now, it will change some over the years, but knowing what motivates you to get out can help determine if expanding your horizons is likely to be a worthwhile pursuit.

Me?  Sure, time spent with family and friends on the slopes is great.  Yeah, as i've focused more on carving rails the speed fix is exhilarating.  However, what has always been the draw for me is being out in nature, the more quiet and solitude the better, challenging myself against the mountain.  The bigger the challenge the better, be it terrain or conditions.  Life is full of daily grinds, be it work, school, whatever.  A day of yo-yo'ing up and down a mountain a dozen times on homogenized groomers just becomes another grind.  I look for something that takes me away, to a unique place, to a different experience, challenging myself physically and mentally along the way.  It refreshes the mind and soul, and strengthens the body.  Time spent hiking and touring doesn't 'waste time' for me, it adds to the experience.  Taking on new challenges lets you develop new skills, be it technical abilities, the ability to read terrain and snow conditions, self sufficiency skills in remote environments....so many interesting things.  I haven't spent as much time over the years doing that as I'd have liked, and it's a regret.  Throw on top of that the fact that being able to share stories about remote, bad ass adventures with chicks in the bar is a heck of a lot more impressive/productive than not having something interesting to share and hey.....adventure skiing should appeal to any red blooded man!

I don't know, maybe you enjoy the time spent sitting on a lift, or skiing the same slopes or conditions again and again.  My older brother is an engineer and his idea of fun is skiing the same confortable slopes again and again, trying to perfect the technical aspects of his turns.  Everyone has a different idea of fun.  If you think you know yours great, but trying new things can only give you a better perspective on life and your recreational pursuits!

My recommendation would be different than Mike's.  For Sno I'd def go AT.  No need to abandon what you think you like now.  A good AT setup built for the down can let you do everything you do now, with the benefit of expanded horizons.  Asking Sno to free the heel and learn a whole new technique....given his proclivities so far....seems like a major stretch.  When it's time for new gear get a decent freeride ski in the 90mm to 100mm range, thrown on a pair of Barons, get a burly AT boot with swappable sole block (to keep future options open), buy a set of skins.....then you can rip groomers all day if you want, but you can also spend a day traveling uphill if you choose.  You can get a setup like that under $1,000 as well.

I'm saying I wouldn't spend the loot for a season pass.  I think that money is better spent elsewhere and I'd want to have the freedom to go different places.  There's a lot more to the ADKs than WF.  And stuff in Canada too.

AT vs Light Tele... meh... you could pick it up easy and it will keep you out of avy terrain.  Not that there is all that much here in the east, but people still do die on slides.  And no reason you couldn't ski that on slides later on if you get the training and skill to do so.  It's something to grow into.  AT puts your skiing ability perhaps ahead of your BC knowledge.

Put it this way, if you buy a set of skis now when you are living home and don't have all sorts of other things gnawing at your loot, you'll have them for all of college, and trust me, college and ski resorts will suck all your money.  Those skis you can do a lot with.  You could ski those on most intermediate stuff and never even drop a knee.  I rarely ski parallel on the stuff I ski, but I'm using long skis and leather boots.  Those little plastic boots and rockered, short skis are wicked turny compared to more XCD type stuff (some people still call that XCD).  It's XC enough to get you anywhere in the high peaks though without having to monkey with skins or wax (except steep avy prone slides).

Seriously!!! Why the hell does anyone care where this snot nosed kid goes to school, where he skis, how he skis, or what he skis on.

MikeK wrote

AT vs Light Tele... meh... you could pick it up easy and it will keep you out of avy terrain.  Not that there is all that much here in the east, but people still do die on slides.  And no reason you couldn't ski that on slides later on if you get the training and skill to do so.  It's something to grow into.  AT puts your skiing ability perhaps ahead of your BC knowledge.

I hear ya.....and depending on the person you are right.  However, given Sno's desire to get to the top as quick as possible, asking him to embrace the uphill touring aspect of BC skiing (more so than the down) on XCD gear seems like it would be a stretch.  Throw in learning a new technique for a kid who is already somewhat reluctant to expand his technique in the bumps/trees/powder....just seems like too much to overcome to get him going.  Making it easier for him to explore and have a few diversions while he continues to do what he loves now seems a little more realistic.  Tele is a mind frame and way of life I'm not sure Sno has in him!

Being like minded individuals here who want to help the NYSB community get the most out of their time in the mountains I guess we can't help ourselves!!

JTG4eva! wrote

Being like minded individuals here who want to help the NYSB community get the most out of their time in the mountains I guess we can't help ourselves!!

A couple things:  

I lived up there for a year when I went to PSC.  I wish I would have had the thought to buy some skis before hand... and knew about skiing off piste.  Where I was, the bike was key though.

I went to engineering school.  After PSC and a little break.  It's tough at first but like I say, it will get easier, but money always seemed to get tighter until I started working.

What I was into in HS changed vastly to when I graduated college.  Being in that area and tying yourself to WF is like going to college with a GF.  Dumb.  You're going to try new stuff eventually.  Might as well be prepared going in.

snoloco wrote

Sorry, I don't really see how anyone can ski more if they burn 90% of the day going up.

The difference is in approach. People who love BC and nordic skiing don't consider climbing a waste of the day.

Always makes me laugh when people with gym memberships get bummed that they didn't get a parking spot close to the building.

In skiing, as in life, if you enjoy the "up" it can really improve your life.

Part of the up

Sno still has some growing to do. He has just learned that untracked light snow is a great thing from his trip to Steamboat. He may still be struggling a bit with how to ski it in its many forms and consistencies. He has complained about crowds. He has made some indications about fitness and he liked to brag about his days on snow. Give him time, when he tires of counting days and vertical and wants more out of skiing experience he will begin to climb and then he can brag about the run on Tuckermans or an experience on one of the many slides in the High Peaks. But right now his experiences are those of a young skier with a lot of maturation in the sport to do. Granted, some people never develop that far and that's ok too, the BC would not be any fun if there were the same number of skiers in the High Peaks as there are summer hikers.

I'd be skiing Whiteface instead of Mountain Creek next year.  That's like going from a bag of airline peanuts to fine dining.  I'd already be expanding my horizons that way.  I can't wait to be skiing the best vertical in the east every weekend.  I'm sure I'd be hitting many more bumps and trees than I do now also.

I don't care if snoloco rides chairs and groomers for the rest of his life. He just doesn't need to shove his preferred experience down everyone else's throat.

raisingarizona wrote

I don't care if snoloco rides chairs and groomers for the rest of his life. He just doesn't need to shove his preferred experience down everyone else's throat.

He isn't shoving anything anywhere, don't read and don't respond, it's your choice

snoloco wrote

I'd be skiing Whiteface instead of Mountain Creek next year......I'm sure I'd be hitting many more bumps and trees than I do now also.

Trees, in a good snow year, yes.  Bumps, not so much.  Drawing this back to the original topic, some of the things you love, snowmaking and the preservation of snow, leave WF grooming everything way too frequently for many decent bumps to develop.  Poor weather cycles with freeze-thaws also contribute.  For as big of a mountain as WF is, it kinda suck most of the time for bumps.  Sure, there are times several trails might get briefly bumped up, but it never lasts.  A shame, really.  Empire has the best bumps when open or poachable.  Mac holds consistent bumps when open.  Left side of Victoria will have some.  Lookout below gets bumped up when open, but there are usually not many good consistent lines.  Poach the course on Wilderness if there is one and you catch it between comps.  Tiny mountains like Ski Sundown demonstrate more of a commitment to bumps than WF.

End of rant...

JTG4eva! wrote

   Tiny mountains like Ski Sundown demonstrate more of a commitment to bumps than WF.
 

Maybe the World Cup should go to Sundown then and skip Whiteface

campgottagopee wrote

Maybe the World Cup should go to Sundown then and skip Whiteface

Please.....that's like saying you'd rather watch me make sweet love to your wife than do it yourself!  Sure, I could do it better than you, but still....

I'm a doer, not a watcher, so a WC course on the side of one trail that I'm not 'allowed' to ski means nothing.  Really, if a place like Sundown has 20 trails and they dedicate a couple to maintaining good bumps that's a huge percentage compared to WF and all its terrain that are generally devoid of good bumps.  Of all the mountains I've skied throughout NY and VT, WF is pretty much the worst for moguls.

LOL...just bustin

p.s. i ain't married so have at it cowboy

I was afraid of that....make it your GF if you got one.  You can keep Rosy all to yourself....

Sno man, there's no wrong way to do it... but limiting yourself to WF seems silly (to me)... yes, I said it again.

Just consider this because you are a numbers guy, and I'm surprised you haven't calc'd it out.

Snow Ridge is about the same distance as is WF from Clarkson, 2 hrs.  Early season lake powder.  Climb it if the lifts aren't spinning.

Big Tupper is 1 hr away, closest big option you have.  Climb away to untracked snow.

Tremblant and Sutton are both 3 hrs away, a little farther but both good w/e options... now not to mention that the Laurentians have a big ski up culture now and there are old, closed resorts with no lifts running that are dirt cheap to ski.  I think like $5.

Gore is only a little farther than WF and puts you close to Siamese Ponds for BC.  About that same distance you could be at the ADK Loj for the High Peaks Wilderness.

Lyon Mtn is an hour and half away, another fading, but workable BC location.

And that's just the low hanging fruit.  I'd say Big Tupper could be one of the best reasons for you to get some touring skis.  It's close, there's vert, and on normal year, there's snow.

Get a headlamp too.  No reason to wait for weekends to ski.

JTG4eva! wrote

I was afraid of that....make it your GF if you got one.  You can keep Rosy all to yourself....

Not so sure he has a girl friend but he is unusually chummy with SJ - just say'in

Gore is included with the WF pass, so I'd ski there if it looked like WF had windholds or the trees were in play at Gore and not WF.  Tremblant is too far away for a day trip, but like I said earlier, I think I'd get a group of friends together to go up during spring break.  The rest are pretty cheap, so not a big deal to pay for a day ticket on a powder day, and it's free if you're earning turns.  Does Big Tupper spin lifts anymore?  I know they didn't open this year, but maybe they'll open next year.

I said I'd ski Whiteface most often, but not exclusively.