Threat of Short-term Rentals to mountain towns

I will relate my one experience with AirBNB, which for me illustrated both the pros and cons of the service.  We rented a townhouse for a long weekend in Georgetown for our 25th alumni reunion at GU last year.  The cost was comparable to a mid-range hotel.  We were bringing the kids (ages 12-16), wanted to be close to campus and wanted more room and a kitchen.

From the perspective of a tenant, it was fantastic.  A fully-furnished 3 bedroom townhouse in the heart of Georgetown, on a quiet, leafy residential street.  We stocked up on groceries, made meals, and some fellow alumni's kids came over and they had a movie night while we attended reunion functions.

Then I thought about the neighbors.  We were quiet, clean and mindful of the neighborhood.  Even so, I put myself in the shoes of the next-door neighbors.  They had to endure people moving in and out of this townhome every weekend, perhaps even twice a week.  I am sure not everyone was as considerate as us.  I am also sure that when they decided to buy their very expensive home, they did not bargain for the property next door becoming a short-stay hotel.

Based on this experience, on a recent 2-week trip to London, I decided not to do AirBNB or Homeaway and instead found serviced apartments that operated full-time as licensed hotels.  If I do use a web-based STR service in the future, it will be in resort areas where a large proportion of the properties are already rentals.

The tech has pros and cons.  I think residential zoning should be that -- residential, and not commercial.  

Petronio

i've only used Airbnb in NYC and I love it.  You can generally find a decent place for $100-200.  For a hotel in that price range for NYC you're looking at either a really small room with a shared bathroom or somewhere shady as fuck.  The 3 times i've done Airbnb have been nice apartments for $100-130.  

Ski towns are expensive. Some more than others. I used to complain about the costs of living but in hindsight I wasn't willing to put in the efforts to make a living in a mountain town then either. So boo hoo and cry me a river, you generally can't roll into a mountain town with zero education or special job skills and expect to make enough money to buy property and raise a family.

That being said you can get an education for a viable career in a mountain town setting and move somewhere where there is a high quality of life even if you aren't going to make as much as in the city. You might not be able to move to Jackson or Aspen but there are plenty of places that are more affordable than those. If you have a career in health there are loads of places near mountains with awesome outdoor rec opportunities and a fairly affordable cost of living.

Maybe a good thread would be where are the next best undiscovered mountain towns?

raisingarizona wrote

Ski towns are expensive. Some more than others.  So boo hoo and cry me a river, you generally can't roll into a mountain town with zero education or special job skills and expect to make enough money to buy property and raise a family.

Along the lines of what RA said, there are opportunities in mountain towns beyond just a paycheck.  The high rate of turnover means there is opportunity to work at - and be trained for - careers you may be interested, especially the trades.

When I lived in a mountain town I was a volunteer fire fighter.  One of the guys on the crew was a trained fire fighter and, with the experience he gained on the vol. department as a captain, was able to get on full time in a non-mountain town.  In the meantime, he could ski.  Sounds pretty kick-ass to me.

If you play it right, you could have a part time job.  Work on hill, wait tables or bartend in the evenings for extra cash.  It was (and probably still is) there to be had if you want it.

Also, places with staff accoms are probably much more affordable.

Petronio wrote

I will relate my one experience with AirBNB, which for me illustrated both the pros and cons of the service.  We rented a townhouse for a long weekend in Georgetown for our 25th alumni reunion at GU last year.  The cost was comparable to a mid-range hotel.  We were bringing the kids (ages 12-16), wanted to be close to campus and wanted more room and a kitchen.

From the perspective of a tenant, it was fantastic.  A fully-furnished 3 bedroom townhouse in the heart of Georgetown, on a quiet, leafy residential street.  We stocked up on groceries, made meals, and some fellow alumni's kids came over and they had a movie night while we attended reunion functions.

Then I thought about the neighbors.  We were quiet, clean and mindful of the neighborhood.  Even so, I put myself in the shoes of the next-door neighbors.  They had to endure people moving in and out of this townhome every weekend, perhaps even twice a week.  I am sure not everyone was as considerate as us.  I am also sure that when they decided to buy their very expensive home, they did not bargain for the property next door becoming a short-stay hotel.

Based on this experience, on a recent 2-week trip to London, I decided not to do AirBNB or Homeaway and instead found serviced apartments that operated full-time as licensed hotels.  If I do use a web-based STR service in the future, it will be in resort areas where a large proportion of the properties are already rentals.

The tech has pros and cons.  I think residential zoning should be that -- residential, and not commercial.  

Petronio

Petronio nailed it.  For awhile I had STRs on both sides of my house.  In the winter besides having them not be able to get up thier driveway and block the road with parked cars not really an issue.  In the summer it was a huge issue with people partying to all hours on week nights.  City people have no idea how sound travels really far thru a forest. Residential zoning means residential not a hotel.  

I have used VBRO but I would only do it for a condo where STRs are to be expected as the norm.

raisingarizona wrote

Maybe a good thread would be where are the next best undiscovered mountain towns?

Would probably go down like a BC thread or the Swimming Hole thread...

Nobody will want to disclose their spot.

Sandpoint, ID looks nice, though.

Wilmington, NY.  Better hurry though cause the real estate is limted and the word is out...  

ScottyJack wrote

Wilmington, NY.

Not enough snow. Ski area too icy, windy & cold. Supermarket too far away.

Sweet mountain biking, though.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

raisingarizona wrote

Maybe a good thread would be where are the next best undiscovered mountain towns?

Would probably go down like a BC thread or the Swimming Hole thread...

Nobody will want to disclose their spot.

Sandpoint, ID looks nice, though.

Cool under the radar ski area but the prices are already really high as it's busier in summer than winter as it's a Great Lake to boat on

Z wrote

Petronio nailed it.  For awhile I had STRs on both sides of my house.  In the winter besides having them not be able to get up thier driveway and block the road with parked cars not really an issue.  In the summer it was a huge issue with people partying to all hours on week nights.  City people have no idea how sound travels really far thru a forest. Residential zoning means residential not a hotel.

 
You live in one of the most popular areas for summer and winter recreation. It is unreasonable to expect that there will be no rentals in your neighborhood. Unless there are deed restrictions or HOA restrictions that I planned for, I would not want anybody telling me that I could not rent my property out.

Z wrote

I have used VBRO but I would only do it for a condo where STRs are to be expected as the norm.

I see Wilmington as an area where STRs are to be expected no matter what type of property.

Tourists are starting become like locust up here in the Daks especially on the weekends.  More than just annoying and with the potential to ruin what draws people to the area.  The popular hikes now have hundreds if not thousands on the trail on a weekend.  The trails are being destroyed by traffic and human waste is now a serious issue.  There way a lot of discussion locally on the Jay news if Jay should opt out of the ironman route.  There is a rising locals backlash coming.  Proper zoning for STRs is not far away.  

Z wrote

Tourists are starting become like locust up here in the Daks especially on the weekends.  More than just annoying and with the potential to ruin what draws people to the area.  The popular hikes now have hundreds if not thousands on the trail on a weekend.  The trails are being destroyed by traffic and human waste is now a serious issue.  There way a lot of discussion locally on the Jay news if Jay should opt out of the ironman route.  There is a rising locals backlash coming.  Proper zoning for STRs is not far away.

Hey, Coach! Read this, and pay specific attention to number 1.

http://www.powder.com/stories/powder-8s/dumbass-local/

Jay the town with the highest property taxes wants to do away with the one event that brings them some revenue each year.  Yeah that's a great idea.  We live in the tourist community, be nice to them, respect them, and thank them for supporting our way of life.  I don't get it.  You want short term rentals in Townhomes which is another persons home yet in your neighborhood you don't want them.  When you moved into that neighborhood you knew one of the selling points was the mountain and resort like community.    

Says the guy that doesn't live here and have to deal with it.  I'm sure you guys in saratoga are pretty happy though once the circus leaves town after the race season is over.  

I'm not a hiker but friends that are certainly are getting fed up.  

I only have two beefs with the tourists
1 drive the F-ing speed limit or use the numerous pull over areas especially in the Notch and Cascades areas.
2 if you do use a STR remember that not everyone else is on vacation so be respectful of people that live here especially on weekday evenings

There is a lot of negative sentiment towards IM but I recognise how how much money it brings in.  I do question whether LP is sharing that tax receipts properly with Jay as we don't benefit really to any degree as there just are not tourists businesses in Jay and our major road 9N is shut down both ways and our fire department is on that road.

STRs did not exist when I bought my house.  

I'm pro Ironman.  I just think that LP needs to adequately compensate Jay for closing a major road in both directions when they don't close thier own major routes in both directions.  The Ironman is worth millions to LP we get bupkus in Jay from it.

You can always move Coach

You aren't even a real Dacker are you??

I was renting in your neighborhood 20 years ago.  You been there longer than that?   Im not going tit for tat but the iron man is a positive for every community up here.  It brings 1000's of affluent people with there greenbacks which up front is nice but its the repeat visitors from the past 20 years that are the real win for the area.  Just like the 46ers.  This neck of the wood is going to continue to grow with intermittent bumps in the road for the foreseeable future.  

I was not aware of STRs back then.  They seemed to explode more recently.

Like I said I'm very pro IM.  There are a lot that are really against it.  Lots of tax revenue comes into the county.  The problem is very little of it sloshes out of LP and Winkytown.  If they want to close the road both ways in Jay now two days a year with the fall half IM LP is going to need to pony up some cash to Jay.  A 100 grand is a rounding error for LP on their IM take and I'm telling ya the locals are getting restless over this issue - lots of talk about this the past couple weeks.    Can't run the IM route without Jay so LP needs to take notice.  The biggest beef is LP doesn't close their own major roads in both directions but Jays are without a voice in the matter.

Z, I totally understand what living in an area with rapidly increasing tourism can be like.

The town I live in (Warwick) has seen a huge increase in tourism since I moved here in late 2003.  It's become especially bad in the fall with apple picking season.  They are also seeing a backlash against short term rentals.  The town is a pretty well off area, and there are a lot of very large houses with decks and swimming pools.  When one of those gets rented on Airbnb, it is a guaranteed party house.  There have been complaints about food and other garbage being left outside and attracting bears.

The traffic is also horrible on summer and fall weekends with lots of very slow drivers holding up long lines of cars.  Downtown, our Main Street is often stop and go with large backups at the traffic lights.  Parking has become increasily difficult also.  Luckily, I live in the village and can walk whenever I go there, and know when to take back roads to avoid the backup of apple pickers leaving town.  The main road toward Westchester and some areas in North Jersey is 17A, which goes up and over Mount Peter to Greenwood Lake, and then over another mountain pass to Sterling Forest where it flattens out and later connects with Route 17.  I've seen it backed up stop and go all the way from Greenwood Lake to Warwick.  I lived in Queens (specifically Forest Hills) before moving to Warwick, and I seriously think traffic on fall weekends (in terms of minutes lost) is worse than the local streets there.

Who's down for renting next to Coach for a long weekend ---- midget strippers and blow!!!