Threat of Short-term Rentals to mountain towns

Cunningstunts wrote

I've spent the last 5+ years meticulously checking real estate in that area because I plan to buy a house there in the next decade.  It's just the way it is.

I do this for a bunch of places. A good idea for a website would be a home price tracker in various ski towns, along with articles on current STR policy, general news, & trail construction updates.

campgottagopee wrote

Over Thanksgiving I was reading my parents subscription of Adirondack Life. I chuckled as I thought it has turned into a really nice real-estate advertising magazine with a few good articles. I like the articles as they have good content but it's hard to find a page in that mag that doesn't have some mansion, huge parcel of land, camp, whatever that's millions of dollars.

My sis, who lives in Northville, made the comment that she wonders how many people really view the Dacks like that. What really goes on up there is an extremely hard way of life, people living in trailers, rundown homes scrambling to fix leaky roofs and get wood in before winter sets in.

My life was exactly like that living in the western finger lakes/southern tier of NY.  Most of everyone I knew was too unless they happened to be rich people living on the lakes.

Most of NY is that way.  I was just harassing my mother, who still lives in the same house I grew up in, to sell that place and move someplace easier because she was having a hard time getting wood ready for the winter.  And she buys pre-split.  It's still a lot of working moving and stacking and keeping your pipes from freezing.

Oh man, Z is in for a rude awakening if he moves to Idaho. Lets just say its a bit lax on the rules and regulations part. (PS I live here, or well just down the road in Victor)

And we get more tourists in one summer than LP will see in the next 2 years. He's going to love it.  

MC2 5678F589 wrote

I do this for a bunch of places. A good idea for a website would be a home price tracker in various ski towns, along with articles on current STR policy, general news, & trail construction updates.

That would be nice.  Although that would certainly boost prices!

I'm actually OK looking a little off the beaten path.  A half hour drive is better than 3 or 4.  Mountain views are nice from your deck, but I'd rather get off my ass go find them away from home.

PFunk_Spock wrote

Oh man, Z is in for a rude awakening if he moves to Idaho. Lets just say its a bit lax on the rules and regulations part. (PS I live here, or well just down the road in Victor)

And we get more tourists in one summer than LP will see in the next 2 years. He's going to love it.

PFunk_Spock.  Parliament/funkadelic and Star Trek.  2 of my favorite things. Do you tele out in Id?

For what it 's worth, as a Brant Laker {not on the lake] with 50+ acres , 1000 sq. ft. home 2 barns and under $2000 in total taxes ,Thank You to all who want to own more then they need.

Yes BRLKED!! Good for you, we are talking the same language.

You live in a beautiful part of NYS

I'm lucky to have spent my childhood there, and luckier to still have places I can go when I want to.

I SO wish I was in a position to buy my Uncle's camp when he offered it to me. That said, it still worked out damn good --- he gave it to my cousin's so I can still go up there and hunt whenever I want

Thanks Camp, it is a dream, I'm lucky!  It would be a pleasure to meet you if you are ever in the area.

BRLKED wrote

50+ acres, 1000 sq. ft

Cunningstunts wrote

Z - don't you live in a gated community in Jay?

I live in what’s called The Acres in Jay.  It’s about as far as a gated community that you can get unless you factor in a lot of prison guards live in here.

These STRs are a new impact and they are changing this area Wilmington in particular which is more what I consider my town as Jay really doesn’t have a town per se.

Unless you live here you really don’t see the changes so I can understand how you guys don’t get this.  I chose to live here to get away from the suburbs and live in a small town attimosphere.  Sure when I sell my house I’ll benefit potentially in a higher selling price but I’ll also pay higher taxes in the meantime.  Living next to a STR party house affects my quality of life.  Tourists are part of the package for living here but you don’t buy a house on a dirt road and then expect to be happy if someone decides to build a rowdy bar next door.  We’ve had a brawl and a couple of domestic disputes in the middle of the night.  The state troopers are the local cops - takes them over 30 mins to show up if they don’t decide they have something more important to do.

I’ll go back to the big turn out at the LP town meeting that I’m far from alone in concern over STRs.  

Z wrote

.  I chose to live here to get away from the suburbs and live in a small town attimosphere.

No.

You chose to live in an area with a lot of tourists. You want the benefits that those tourists bring, but you don't like the costs associated. You took a wish on the monkey's paw, and you're shocked to find that it isn't what you'd expected.

Like I said, you can just move deeper into the woods or you can change your attitude and it looks like you don't intend on changing your curmudgeonly attitude anytime soon. Don't make me put up "Old Man Yells at Cloud" again.

Z wrote

Cunningstunts wrote

Z - don't you live in a gated community in Jay?

I live in what’s called The Acres in Jay.  It’s about as far as a gated community that you can get unless you factor in a lot of prison guards live in here.

These STRs are a new impact and they are changing this area Wilmington in particular which is more what I consider my town as Jay really doesn’t have a town per se.

Unless you live here you really don’t see the changes so I can understand how you guys don’t get this.  I chose to live here to get away from the suburbs and live in a small town attimosphere.  Sure when I sell my house I’ll benefit potentially in a higher selling price but I’ll also pay higher taxes in the meantime.  Living next to a STR party house affects my quality of life.  Tourists are part of the package for living here but you don’t buy a house on a dirt road and then expect to be happy if someone decides to build a rowdy bar next door.  We’ve had a brawl and a couple of domestic disputes in the middle of the night.  The state troopers are the local cops - takes them over 30 mins to show up if they don’t decide they have something more important to do.

I’ll go back to the big turn out at the LP town meeting that I’m far from alone in concern over STRs.

I didn't mean that in a derogatory way.  I just remember saying that you live in Jay and you have some sort of home owner association/land management associated with your house.

To me, that's what I call a "gated" community, whether it's correct or not.  I've looked at buying houses in a number of them over the years and decided that it's not for me, but that's not really my point.

Yeah - as far as those STRs in Wilmington that you hate, I rented one a few years back.  We had a real rager

Seriously, I think I've seen the biggest, loudest parties out in the middle of nowhere.  That's usually how you get away with that sort of thing.  They also don't usually bother anyone else because, well, they are out in the middle of nowhere.  If there's some issues within the small hamlet of houses in Wilmington, then perhaps they need to rally together and hire a law enforcement individual to address this.  This is typically what suburban communities do within their government.

So anyway, I really don't see how this affects your very specific living situation.  I'm sure your home owners association could vote to ban STRs specifically within your community.  The other ones shouldn't really affect you in any sort of negative way.

Cunningstunts wrote

. . . I'm sure your home owners association could vote to ban STRs specifically within your community.  The other ones shouldn't really affect you in any sort of negative way.

Have you been part of a Homeowners Assoc.?  Getting the voting process done to a change to the covenants is not that easy.  Even if the topic is not particularly controversial.  Been there, done that as a member of a Board.

LP is not the only tourist town to have issues with the way STRs have evolved.  The increasing numbers of people who have a smart phone or a tablet . . . and know how to use it for Internet access . . . is changing the nature of how much tourists make reservations.

marznc wrote

Cunningstunts wrote

. . . I'm sure your home owners association could vote to ban STRs specifically within your community.  The other ones shouldn't really affect you in any sort of negative way.

Have you been part of a Homeowners Assoc.?  Getting the voting process done to a change to the covenants is not that easy.  Even if the topic is not particularly controversial.  Been there, done that as a member of a Board.

LP is not the only tourist town to have issues with the way STRs have evolved.  The increasing numbers of people who have a smart phone or a tablet . . . and know how to use it for Internet access . . . is changing the nature of how much tourists make reservations.

Seems like you have more of an option than none.  This would be the first option I would address if I had an issue.  The next would be the town.

I also looked this up, but if you lived there, you should know:

Town of Jay

Town of Wilmington

Town of North Elba

Although I live near Rochester, NY, I pay taxes to the Town of Gates.  If I have an civil issues like this, I would go to the town I pay taxes to.

Z lives in the Town of Jay and is complaining about problems in the Town of North Elba (which includes the Village of LP) and the Town of WIlmington.

I think he just wants to be part of the crew who carries the torch and pitchfork at the meeting.

Z wrote

Unless you live here you really don’t see the changes so I can understand how you guys don’t get this.  I chose to live here to get away from the suburbs and live in a small town attimosphere.  Sure when I sell my house I’ll benefit potentially in a higher selling price but I’ll also pay higher taxes in the meantime.  Living next to a STR party house affects my quality of life.  Tourists are part of the package for living here but you don’t buy a house on a dirt road and then expect to be happy if someone decides to build a rowdy bar next door.  We’ve had a brawl and a couple of domestic disputes in the middle of the night.  The state troopers are the local cops - takes them over 30 mins to show up if they don’t decide they have something more important to do.

I’ll go back to the big turn out at the LP town meeting that I’m far from alone in concern over STRs.

Have the town(s) hire some cops and enforce the law.

Are the towns going to put out a warrant for the arrest of the property owner when there is a brawl at the owner's property? Is the code enforcement officer going to have the ability to arrest an owner? If there is a brawl in the Crown Plaza will the code enforcement be able to arrest the owners of the Crown Plaza?

Property owners pay a ton of money in property taxes. How about having some law enforcement that can respond in a reasonable amount of time rather than waiting for the state police to show up?

x10003q wrote

Have the town(s) hire some cops and enforce the law.

Are the towns going to put out a warrant for the arrest of the property owner when there is a brawl at the owner's property? Is the code enforcement officer going to have the ability to arrest an owner? If there is a brawl in the Crown Plaza will the code enforcement be able to arrest the owners of the Crown Plaza?

Property owners pay a ton of money in property taxes. How about having some law enforcement that can respond in a reasonable amount of time rather than waiting for the state police to show up?

This is exactly what is going to have to happen - the first statement.

Even if you make some laws against STRs, who's gonna enforce that?  Neighborhood watch?  Seems like they are already not able to handle the situation so just making up some arbitrary rules that penalize the property owner and not the perpetrator seems silly.

Have law enforcement take care of the unruly customers and let the (many) good customers be.

Doesn't Essex county have a Sheriff?  This is a prime example of the kinds of things a Sheriff would deal with.

Being a city people you guys clearly have no idea what it’s like to live in a small town.  It’s 20 miles to the nearest stop light from my house.  Wrap your head around that.

Our homeowners association is fine for throwing a July 4 picnic but it has zero ability to do anything about STRs.  I used to on the board and we tried but we lack the ability to enforce convenants as it’s not in the properties deeds.

I’ve lived here 20 years and we never had this issue until the last couple years with the internet making this STR issue explode and the towns are just now coming to grips with having to regulate it.  Boston passed a law against Airbnb recently as well.

And There is no way Jay or Wlimnongton could afford to have thier own cop.  You city folk just don’t get it.

It's a bummer getting hit with big expenses you weren't planning on.

What about an additional tax on STR revenue to pay for the cops?

That could:

• Attach the cost to revenue source
• Reduce the motivation for out-of-towners to buy the homes for STRs
• Depress the value of the homes, making them more affordable for locals

Harvey wrote

It's a bummer getting hit with big expenses you weren't planning on.

What about an additional tax on STR revenue to pay for the cops?

That could:

• Attach the cost to revenue source
• Reduce the motivation for out-of-towners to buy the homes for STRs
• Depress the value of the homes, making them more affordable for locals

While I understand your idea, I don't see how this is fair.  Shouldn't they also increase taxes on everyone that has a seasonal home there?  They are technically out-of-towners buying up real estate.  They drive up the value of houses in these regions, far, far, far more than any STR could even dream of.  No one is buying million dollar plus estates for rental property to a bunch of party goons.

The issue is the towns have no way to enforce their laws.  Plain and simple.  It has absolutely zero to do with STRs.  They just happened to show a problem that was already there.  If they can't enforce their laws, adding new laws will not solve the problem except punish those who are honest.

If the town cannot afford their own law enforcement due to budget constraints, then they need to look to the county.  It should not be the burden of the state to take on these local issues with law enforcement.  If the Sheriff's office doesn't have the resources, taxes will need to be raised county-wide to afford a deputy.  This is how everyone else in the rest of this state deals with this type of thing.



And FWIW, if Z is going to make vast assumptions and accusations, I'll say that I lived a vast majority of my life in a county much, much poorer and less developed than Essex county.

PS - Z, I'm not trying to shove this in your face like MC is, although, technically everything he says is correct, but rather help you see the real issue and hope when you go to flay those STR owners at your town meeting you'll ask why the county is not involved in this issue, and why you would want to punish "seasonal" tax payers who bring business to your TOURIST towns when your town (or your county) could actually enforce some real laws or noise ordinances, or whatever and punish the actual perpetrators.

In Essex county Ny there are only 3 towns that have a local police force
LP, Saranac Lake which is half in Franklin Co, And Ti
The Sherrifs office is very small mostly to run the county jail and serve warrants, eviction notices etc.

The entire counties population is less than 38k

Per the FBI web site rural areas have roughly 1.6 cops per 10k so the whole county should have 6 cops per that ratio to cover 1916 sq miles.  Given that how important do you think noise complaints are to those few cops?
I’ll say it again this is not the suburbs and if you don’t live here you can’t really understand it.

There are zoning laws that prevent businesses and multi family dwellings from residential areas that don’t have infrastructure to support them ie being on a dirt road etc.    The towns have control of those zoning laws and towns or county has zoning enforcement staff.  Thus town regulation is the proper vehicle to rein in the STR problem and that is what is goi g to happen