Tiny Houses

MikeK wrote

I don't know if it's his family's intention to make it there full time, but I hope they do!

I hope so too. It's my dream to live there in 9 years when Neve goes off to college or wherever.  I will have to sell my wife on the idea.  She is more inclined to try something in the capital district.  Even that would be cool as I could be at the cabin much more often.

The cabin was originally envisioned as an out building for a larger structure. Larger but not large.

It is too small for two full time with a visiting 3rd and (maybe) her family. But I believe in small.  Our full time residence is 1000 sq feet. Not too many people with two "homes" are coming in at 1200 feet.

Harvey wrote

The cabin was originally envisioned as an out building for a larger structure. Larger but not large.

It is too small for two full time with a visiting 3rd and (maybe) her family. But I believe in small.  Our full time residence is 1000 sq feet. Not too many people with two "homes" are coming in at 1200 feet.

Have you seen the tiny home documentary?  It's really the cool thing to do

Less crap.  Less electricity.  Less heat.  Less taxes.  Less is more!

My idea of small is 400 sq ft - a little bigger than the tiny house.  I'd also do a woodshed and a barn.  Maybe a lean to for summer guests.

Yea Scotty plus he was dissin the face while we were rockin the slides!  (Ok yea the slides were rockin me).

MikeK wrote

Have you seen the tiny home documentary?

Not sure I have seen the documentary but my girls watch all the tiny house stuff they can find on TV.  Personally I don't like the idea of houses on wheels, I'm partial to a foundation.

Yeah I don't like the wheels either.  Those were just to get around building codes.

In our climate I prefer the full basement.

There are a lot of documentaries on the Tiny House movement. This is one we can all identify with:

Thanks for sharing that
Loved it

We owned a 400 foot cabin in Vt by Pico before getting our current chalet style home near WF.  It was a just 600 square feet but then we finished the basement.  That was perfect for a weekend place.  Once we moved here full time we put an addition on.  It's now 1920 sq feet plus garage and heated workshop.

A small place is great for weekends.  Keeps cost and maintenance time down so you can enjoy your time there.  Ultimately we figured out how to get down to one house but that meant it had to larger.

Funny this thread started yesterday, just as I was over at my neighbors house getting a tour of the tiny house he is building for his sister. I'll try and get some pics next time I'm over there. Hell, after seeing that I'd live in one for sure.

Yea Camp has one of those sinful "small" houses. He hasn't gone tiny yet.

LOL
I do have a small, wonderful, efficient, house that I love. Had the big-ish 3bdrm, 2 bath, blah, blah, blah, wqith high taxes. NO MORE!! I'm just a simple person trying to live a simple life  . I'm certainly intrigued by these tiny houses tho. For around here I think they'd be GREAT for vacation / hunting camp type of living.  I agree that our climate would be harsh on one of those lil buggers around here.

I like the theory of a tiny house, but I need to be able to stand up in my bedroom, so those lofts are no good. I can definitely see myself living in a place like this, though:

http://wheelhaus.com/caboose/

But before dreaming about that, I need to get an adventure van first. Plan for the next big purchases: Adventure van (probably homemade from a Ford Transit Connect), land in VT (to park Adventure Van on and hold on to), retire early, build smallish house on land in VT for home base, sell current house.

Doesn't have to be VT, but not liking the looks of that drought out west.

I've had very similar thoughts.  Van was one of them... that one is pretty new, and my wife is totally on board.

I hate vehicles though.  They are a terrible waste of both money and resource, but in reality I'm not going to stop driving around doing stuff, and hotels, even if it's only during the winter aren't cheap.

I'd like to hear more about details of said tiny or small house i.e. heating, cooking, hot water, electric, waste, etc?

I've been looking into all the latest and greatest technologies and some seem pretty promising.  It's a bit of an investment up front but the idea in my mind is the less I can spend after I say "fuck off" to my job, the better.  If my house nearly supports itself and is all paid off, then that's a big load off.

I don't care if Coach and P-Tex say I'd be killing the environment, I'd definitely put up solar panels, add a battery (Tesla Powerwall) and go off-grid.  I'd probably look to build something in the 600 sq foot range (gotta share the adventure with the kids & wife), with a permanent foundation.

Question for the technology geeks.  If you don't have a cable connection or phone line, and cell service is poor or nonexistent, are there any options for having an internet connection?  I'd want to be able to check on the place remotely (at least to monitor the indoor temperaure to make sure the place hasn't frozen up).  And I'd need to be able to check snow / weather reports when I'm there.

Adk Jeff wrote

Question for the technology geeks.  If you don't have a cable connection or phone line, and cell service is poor or nonexistent, are there any options for having an internet connection?  I'd want to be able to check on the place remotely (at least to monitor the indoor temperaure to make sure the place hasn't frozen up).  And I'd need to be able to check snow / weather reports when I'm there.

Hey neighbor?

I looked into this with Frontier (cough, suck, cough) as our internet is crappy reliable in North River. They tried to push me towards "satellite."  Not sure what that means exactly/precisely but it was expensive.

Hughesnet is about it

I was going to say SAT as well.  I'd assume the way cell tech is going, there are going to be very few spots without cell service in years to come, and data will continue to get cheaper.

Solar cells are lookin' really good to me these days.  I particularly like the ones that come with the long term warranty (I saw one like 35 years - don't know if they'll be around to actually honor that, but it sounds nice).  What I wonder about is low sun days and getting buried in snow during the winter?  I was also looking into solar hot water heaters, but again, not sure if it would be 100% reliable due to the issues above.  I had assumed it could be supplemented by heating water on a wood stove or outdoor grill during the summer.

Another tech that I really like that has been around for some time geothermal radiant floor heating.  The systems I am thinking would be used to supplement a furnace or woodstove and keep the house at a base temperature that is livable when you aren't around.  Keeps pipes and animals from freezing.  I'm not sure it's worth the investment though, but I suppose could also save your life should you get buried in a storm and only have a small quantity of wood to get to easily.

Personally I've also been wanting to get away from a traditional septic and go to a composting toilet and a greywater catch tank.  The thing is a composting toilet needs to be kept warm at all times to actually compost the waste, so that may lend itself to a geothermal base heat.  I really need to do more research on such things.

I would also like to be completely off of natural gas, although I'm thinking I'd still like to have an electric line installed if I have the option.  I'd like to maintain a chest freezer as well, and if you go offline with your solar cell or battery backup, you may end up with a lot of wasted food.  I wouldn't use the grid service for anything but that, and I could probably live without it.  A gas generator is always an option, but I'd like to avoid that.

For cooking I had been thinking I'd love to do everything with wood.  I love cooking with wood and during the winter it's not a big deal if you have a woodstove (questioning whether or not I'd want that to be a wood oven).  For warmer months an outdoor, covered (and screened for bug season) wood bbq could suffice for all my cooking needs.  A couple alky stoves make for a good backup if you don't want to make a fire.

Adk Jeff wrote

I don't care if Coach and P-Tex say I'd be killing the environment, I'd definitely put up solar panels, add a battery (Tesla Powerwall) and go off-grid.  I'd probably look to build something in the 600 sq foot range (gotta share the adventure with the kids & wife), with a permanent foundation.

Question for the technology geeks.  If you don't have a cable connection or phone line, and cell service is poor or nonexistent, are there any options for having an internet connection?  I'd want to be able to check on the place remotely (at least to monitor the indoor temperaure to make sure the place hasn't frozen up).  And I'd need to be able to check snow / weather reports when I'm there.

Buddy of mine from high school has been completely off the grid for 15yrs now, he's a complete techy dork (master mercedes tech) . Sounds like you'd be using this place as a second home?? If so, I'd caution you on the off the grid stuff. From what I've seen him go thru you need to be there year round for all the tinkering involved. As you know, shit never breaks at a convenient time.  For that reason off grid stuff isn't for me. If I were building new I'd have my primary heat be wood pellets with an electric heat backup, and just pay the electric bill.

Unless you're willing to go full 19th century, without indoor plumbing or refrigeration, off the grid is pretty hard.  No matter how small your house is, you will need reliable refrigeration and heat, and maybe a well pump. I would need a router and maybe 5 different cell phones and laptops, and a printer. Solar alone, even with a 5 day battery back up, won't do that for you.  There's just not enough sunlight to carry you through the winter, even if you are diligent about clearing snow.  If you are off the grid, you might not be able to get a mortgage on the place, or you might have to put in an electric service to sell the house. You will need to buy your own panels without any tax credits, too.
The grid makes solar way more valuable.  Net metering will go away, but solar panels with smart inverters will still provide more than enough value to justify the cost.

MM

Milo Maltbie wrote

Unless you're willing to go full 19th century, without indoor plumbing or refrigeration, off the grid is pretty hard.  No matter how small your house is, you will need reliable refrigeration and heat, and maybe a well pump. I would need a router and maybe 5 different cell phones and laptops, and a printer. Solar alone, even with a 5 day battery back up, won't do that for you.  There's just not enough sunlight to carry you through the winter, even if you are diligent about clearing snow.  If you are off the grid, you might not be able to get a mortgage on the place, or you might have to put in an electric service to sell the house. You will need to buy your own panels without any tax credits, too.
The grid makes solar way more valuable.  Net metering will go away, but solar panels with smart inverters will still provide more than enough value to justify the cost.

MM

Here are my thoughts in response to that, it's probably giving up more than most people would.

I would like to setup a dual system for water.  That means a hand pump for cold water, and a small electric pump for hot water.  Hot water would also be supplied by a indirect circulation pump.  I'd also assume for a a good portion of my hot water needs I would heat water using wood.

I would also like to keep a chest freezer and a small refrig.  Those would be hooked to the grid, just because of reliability.  I'd keep both in the basement to keep the temp on them as regulated as possible.  The earth has a ton of thermal capacitance to use to your advantage.  That's the same concept as using the geothermal radiant floor heating.

As far as actual electric devices, I could give up a lot.  I might keep a small internet device, two or three fluorescent lights and maybe some rechargeable batteries for headlamps and such, but if I make a list, there isn't a lot.

MikeK wrote

Here are my thoughts in response to that, it's probably giving up more than most people would.

I would like to setup a dual system for water.  That means a hand pump for cold water, and a small electric pump for hot water.  Hot water would also be supplied by a indirect circulation pump.  I'd also assume for a a good portion of my hot water needs I would heat water using wood.

I would also like to keep a chest freezer and a small refrig.  Those would be hooked to the grid, just because of reliability.  I'd keep both in the basement to keep the temp on them as regulated as possible.  The earth has a ton of thermal capacitance to use to your advantage.  That's the same concept as using the geothermal radiant floor heating.

As far as actual electric devices, I could give up a lot.  I might keep a small internet device, two or three fluorescent lights and maybe some rechargeable batteries for headlamps and such, but if I make a list, there isn't a lot.

I think once you hook up an electric service, you might as well put everything on electric.  Why would you want a hand pump for cold water and an electric for hot?  Why not just a well pump with a pressure tank?   Also, I'm getting too old to rely on burning wood, and that seems to be sadly irreversible.  
If I were building a house, I would maximize the solar potential, but with only a small electric load you won't get the zero upfront lease deal on the panels. I'd go all electric, range, hot water, ground source heat pump, invisible fence,  500 watt stereo, arc welder, 3D printer, Wintersteiger, then add enough solar panels to control the cost.

MM

Yeah, that's one way to do it I guess.  Initial investment is the key word there.  Also I would ideally like to have a very small utility bill.  None would be better, but how many solar cells does that take?  And what do you do when it rains for a week or they are buried under 4' of snow?  I could probably deal with brushing a couple of them off, but I'd rather just use less electricity.

Cold would still be on a pump as well, you'd want to be able to mix that, but for just getting a drink, putting water on the stove to boil or rinsing something off a hand pump works just fine and always gets you water, although if you do have an electric hookup I suppose, that's your backup.

For me, whether I have an electric hookup or not would depend on my land, and whether or not it was easy to get.  Some places it would cost a fortune, so I'd just go with a generator for backup and use solar as the main.  If it was easy to get I'd probably just hook it up and use it as backup.

Wood heat is pretty renewable.  If the entire world population starts burning wood again it won't be.  But a few other hillbillies and I aren't going to burn down the entire eastern forests.

Also this may sound crazy, but I'm thinking of trying to live on less than 30k a year for two people.  That's food, taxes, transport, energy... everything.  I'm blowing through 3.5 times that now.  It's a big change.  Things need to be drastic.  It's also min 10 years away.