Tragic

Haha. Okay, I should have qualified my statement more. Maybe instead of using the word "really" I should have used the word "likely" and I should have added a disclaimer about "glancing blows". You win this "argument", X! Is that what you want to hear?

Can we please stop talking about this now?

And maybe not bring up helmet use every time that someone dies?

No? Okay then. Carry on with your holier than thou attitudes and trumped up self importance.

mattchuck2 wrote

 

Can we please stop talking about this now?

 

 

No shit!

Now tell us about making the damn dev team

I'll start a helmet thread to move this shit show elsewhere.

Matt, you don't seem to like my observations on hop turns or helmets....so you definitely won't like this observation.  You are the one that comes across to me as the guy with the chip on his shoulder regarding helmets.  I made a casual, reasonable observation that I found it unfortunate that someone died of a head injury while not wearing a helmet, recognizing it might not even have made a difference.  There was no preaching or beating of horses.  You storm in and tell everyone to take it somewhere else, helmets are overrated as a piece of safety equipment, and you don't wanna hear it.  Really, what did you think was going to happen from there?  You fanned the helmet discussion fire.  I admire your passion....but I think deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you WANT to talk about helmets, you NEED to talk about helmets!

Skidds wrote

I'll start a helmet thread to move this shit show elsewhere.

 

Please do so I can COMPLETELY ignore it

A young man died while skiing on hill --- that's all that matters

Imagine if every time someone got injured on the slopes, I used that opportunity to talk about Giant Inflatable Sumo suits, and I said things like "It is unknown if a giant inflatable sumo suit would have helped in this situation, but my brother was skiing the other day, and thank God he was wearing his giant inflatable sumo suit because...." And then I launched into some stupid story.

That's how I feel when I read stupid comments about helmets. And you guys are actually pretty calm compared to people who wrote into magazines or complain on websites that their stock photos show people having fun (GASP!) without helmets.

I have my opinions, and I do my fair share of ignoring bristling posts, but I just hope that I made the point that helmet stories about your friends and helmet tut tutting are not really effective in getting people to your side.

This thread is not like an avalanche incident when we can pore over reports and identify where the victim made mistakes. It's a thread about an unfortunate incident that is blowing up because people love to feel above others because of their choice of headwear.

Read this thread back, but substitute "riding a jet ski on a lake" for "skiing excelsior on Whiteface". All of a sudden, my words look a little more sensible than the helmet zealots.

campgottagopee wrote

Now tell us about making the damn dev team

I'll make a post about this tonight, which hopefully explains the backstory and everything.

mattchuck2 wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Now tell us about making the damn dev team

I'll make a post about this tonight, which hopefully explains the backstory and everything.

You guys won't ignore the helmet thread.  Never!  You'll be curious  to see what babble the zealots are spouting, and you will long, no yearn, to dispel it.

Oh, actual Matt, I've asked a pretty relevant question I was wondering about from an instructor perspective.

While no good will ever come from a tragic death, a resulting discussion on safety...as much as we might disagree on the points, isn't an entirely bad thing.

Right. And I agreed that, in, say, an avalanche death we can reconstruct the decisions made, look at evidence and form opinions.

But "This guy should have been wearing a helmet" doesn't really fit this criteria (unless you have hard evidence to back it up, which is rarely available in these cases). Even if it was absolutely proven that a helmet would have saved his life (which almost never happens), you'd still be left with other questions. Would a helmet have emboldened him to ski more recklessly? If the helmet saved him, and he had massive brain damage and lived in a coma and only with the assistance of feeding tubes, is that better? I don't know the answers.

I liked that someone brought up the danger of Excelsior as a trail now with the wideness, variety of ability levels on display, and twisty turns. If you want to talk about that, awesome. Please do.

Very tragic. This is terrible news. For some reason it hits home more when its a ski accident than when someone dies in a car accident. Why is that? You do both regularly but one seems much more possible or risky I suppose. I feel for the family.

Congrats to Matt. I look forward to your post about the dev team.

I am mounting my high horse and will now be posting in the appropriate helmet thread....

mattchuck2 wrote

I liked that someone brought up the danger of Excelsior as a trail now with the wideness, variety of ability levels on display, and twisty turns. If you want to talk about that, awesome. Please do.

I can't tell if this is snark or not.  I.e., is it a stupid or pointless question to ask.  I guess I was just pointing out that from among the reported deaths at Whiteface, this trail seems to pop up.  

Also, congrats on the achievement.  Do you instruct at Gore?  We're going to make it our regular mountain next season and I am interested in finding out about options for my three daughters/opinions on the ski school.  The oldest will be 15, the middle one 13 and the youngest 10.  They all handle the blues with no problem.

Petronio

Petronio wrote

I can't tell if this is snark or not.  I.e., is it a stupid or pointless question to ask.  I guess I was just pointing out that from among the reported deaths at Whiteface, this trail seems to pop up.  

Not snark. I hate what Excelsior has become. It used to be a classic New England/Adirondack trail with fun twists and turns that kept speeds down.

When Paron's came into it, and then when they added the Gondy, everybody and their mother just started skiing it, so they had to widen it. Then people started skiing faster and faster on it, and they widened it more. Now it's a freeway of confused, lost, scared borderline intermediates. And when they want to get out of that hell, they find themselves on top of Victoria (is that what we call lower cloudspin now?), which is no picnic itself.

I never ski Excelsior any more. It's too dangerous and not worth it.

The most important lesson I've learned from this thread: no more skiing fast on the edge just because I'm bored and the snow is better there. Also, people have strong opinions about helmets. I wear one now, although I was against it more than ten years ago, because now I'm a tree skier. But I firmly believe in freedom of choice.

I was logging on to try to figure out how to separate this thread.  It was really kenney's post that turned the tide.

As you know I don't moderate much.  But I was thinking pulling it out from there into a new separate thread and calling it  "Helmet Thread #6" or whatever number it is.

The I was thinking I'd change the name of "Tragic" to "Snowboarder, 22, Dies at Whiteface" and maybe locking it on the last post before kenneys.

No offense at all kenney. I just want to honor the kid.  

I also thought maybe the passionate helmet discussion is a good as part of it. I really don't know.

But after reading this:

Spongeworthy wrote

The most important lesson I've learned from this thread: no more skiing fast on the edge just because I'm bored and the snow is better there. Also, people have strong opinions about helmets. I wear one now, although I was against it more than ten years ago, because now I'm a tree skier. But I firmly believe in freedom of choice.

I think it's good as is.

Got to light the fire. And get set for the night.

Thanks so much for the thank you thread. That means a lot.

Will post there later tonight.

Damn, Harvey. You're the best.

Right on, Harv.

Where can I get an inflatable sumo suit?

Was that a summo suit Noah was wearing? I thought it was a giant condom

Harvey wrote

 As you know I don't moderate much.  

 

 

I think you do a damn good job Harv

Coach Z wrote

Was that a summo suit Noah was wearing? I thought it was a giant condom

That's why I was asking, being the expert skier I am with the wisdom to rate all those lesser skiers ability, I have never found a condom that's not too snug.