Tuckerman

I’ll agree with Coach on that point.  While this incident had nothing directly to do with the skiing the crown and debris from the previous Tuckerman avalanche, I saw a picture of this one.  The crown is pretty significant and I’m sure it dates back to a previous thaw/freeze layer.  Scary stuff, and I might be spooked off of the entire area for this spring.  Not because of previous slide debris being unskiable, but because of what is obviously lurking out there right now.  Maybe May?  Not anytime soon.

Give the conditions this week I’m not sure there was even powder to be chased.  The avy forecast was not pretty, and any powder out there would have been wind loaded over a bulletproof refrozen surface.  Exactly what you shouldn’t be skiing, especially alone.  Like I said, just bad choices.  I don’t think the area in question typically sees avalanche activity.  Heuristic traps at play again....????

Z wrote

It is exceptional rare for an eastern Avalanche actually bury someone.  Near 100% of  injuries in an eastern avy are due to blunt force of hitting trees and rocks.  This incident was a big slide and likely was the same instability that caused the slide in tucks headwall.  Thus back to my point that it’s not the smartest or safest  thing to ski there this spring while MC kept insisting all is well and from this clearly it isn’t.

Obviously it’s a terrible someone was killed.  Not sure why he was skiing in the be country and in iffy conditions by himself.  Lesson for everyone there.  Powderfever can kill.  RIP.

The current conditions shouldn’t warrant a decision on spring skiing stability. At least, not yet. A MF (melt/freeze) cycle can stabilize everything in a matter of a few days. It’s not the month, it’s the weather patterns and they can happen mid winter even. I suppose by saying “I won’t ski there until May” is a sure fire way to be safe for someone that’s not sure about things and that’s the right call for that person.

We are pretty lucky here on the Peaks. Our snow pack behaves much like the eastern Sierras. It has avalanche cycles during large events but generally stabilizes within a few hours post event. We can get persistent weaknesses that can last through February but it’s nothing like a continental pack that you get in Colorado. It took me a lot of years here to get comfortable with the pack. I wasn’t used to such a quick recovery.

Good lawd. This poor guy was under for an hour and a half to two hours before being uncovered. He was still breathing when they found him. What a horrific way to die. Seriously, that’s the stuff of nightmares.  

Someone saw the debris and ski tracks and reported it. I wonder if they tried to locate the victim. If they didn’t that’s a real shame. He might have made it.

RIP and shred the sky.

Z wrote

.  Thus back to my point that it’s not the smartest or safest  thing to ski there this spring while MC kept insisting all is well and from this clearly it isn’t.

No. You specifically said skiing was going to be shitty because there was an avalanche crown:

Z wrote

I saw a post on FB saying Tucks has a huge Avy fracture line across 75% of its width so it might not be skiablethis spring.

Then, after being (rightfully) attacked for that, you shifted the goalposts to avalanche debris:

Z wrote

I certainly dont enjoy skiing on Avy rubble but hey MC you probably love it like it’s fresh pow because you automatically zig when I  zag

Unless we get a ton more snow over that rubble it’s not going to be any fun this season

And now you've shifted the goalposts again to "people shouldn't ski it this spring because avalanche dangers are high at this specific moment" (paraphrase).

The reason you keep getting frustrated (in PolitiCrap, in the Stock Market thread) is because you keep making dumb arguments, then you frantically trying to to rationalize the dumb arguments and switch them around instead of just admitting you were overreacting from the start.

Tucks will be fine when I stroll up in Late April. Calm down, Z.

I hear you, RA....but consider me the uber-conservative type.  Combine that with the fact that this week’s slide might very well have gone on the same layer that released in Tuckerman’s almost two weeks ago, and things might not be consolidating as quickly as one might normally expect.  I’m sure after the slide in Tuckerman’s a few weeks ago people said the same thing MC is saying.....it’ll be fine when I go in a couple weeks.  We know how that worked out, or maybe it wasn’t the same layer.

Anywho, I’m happy to over-err on the side of caution.  Yeah, especially as temps warm, things can change quickly, but I wouldn’t even have a window for another two or three weeks...so it’s easy for me to push to May, if I can even make it happen this year.

Stay safe out there folks!

Yeah, Z may be all over the map with his conclusions, but he’s finally right I think, it’s a little dicey right now.

I mentioned the eastern Sierras in that post jtg, have you thought about going there for some guided touring?

Those mountains are pretty darn ridiculous. You can often get big, stable fresh snow lines there.

I’ve only skied the Sierras once, in the Tahoe region.  No touring, but I did a cat skiing day out there.  The peaks were pretty gorgeous.  Sierra Cement is like Cascade Concrete....sticks to everything!

The mountains between Mammath and Bishop are world class. The elevations are higher, the descents are huge, the access is easy and that area is known for its stable, wind buffed snow.

And your argument was the wind will reload everything and it will be all just peachy

There is clearly a very persistent shit layer under all the snow.  Wind loading on top of it will make it worse not better.

I just have to look at WFs slides which never opened and are on pretty much the same aspect as Tucks to know there is a hockey rink hiding under the Eastern snow pack

Mc you are a young pup
Us old guys tend to be more conservative in many ways.  Like the saying there are no old bold pilots.

Somehow you think you know everything.  You can’t Google experience keep that in mind.  

You’ll soon learn a big lesson if you are all in on index funds you will not soon forget.  Which is better than learning the lesson this poor guy learned at Tucks.  But of course you know everything because you read it on the Fing Internet.

Quadrupling down, huh?

Maybe you could just admit you might have been wrong when you said the ravine would be unskiable all Spring?

I thought the original dispute was could you ski the avy field this season, not would other similar aspects also slide.

Z wrote

.  
You’ll soon learn a big lesson if you are all in on index funds you will not soon forget.  Which is better than learning the lesson this poor guy learned at Tucks.  But of course you know everything because you read it on the Fing Internet.

Lol, you had to go back in and add this part?!?

Hilarious.

I give up
You can go F off
I’m done
See ya Harv

Hey Zeus Christo.

Why does having Z say that he was wrong brother you so much Matt? Who fucking cares?

raisingarizona wrote

Why does having Z say that he was wrong brother you so much Matt?

It doesn't! I was just giving him some shit while I was drinking beers and watching the Mets on a Friday night. Then he got all emotional.

I do find it funny that he can't admit that he exaggerated. All he had to say is, "Okay maybe I overreacted a bit, and the ravine will be fine in a week or two", but he didn't want to do that. He wanted to come here and use a guy's death to "prove" me wrong.

The whole thing was bizarre.

You should be nicer to people

I like Z, hopefully he comes back

campgottagopee wrote

You should be nicer to people

Now you're getting emotional, too?

What do you think were the most mean things I said in that exchange?

Z wrote

Somehow you think you know everything.  You can’t Google experience keep that in mind.

Z, how much experience do you have on Mount Washington?

This whole thing is kinda silly. The fatality wasn't even in Tuckerman Ravine and this whole issue got blown out of proportion from a discussion regarding a crown line and avi debris in the ravine that are probably pretty well erased by now and have nothing to do with this week's activity and incidents.

Here are some more reports including a first person report regarding a partial burial in Oakes Gulf (that incident involved three very experienced guides that had backed off other lines earlier in their tour):

http://northeastexplorer.com/wordpress/man-killed-in-avalanche-near-tuckerman-ravine/

https://northeastalpinestart.com/2019/04/12/caught-and-partially-buried-in-oakes-gulf-avalanche-4-11-19/

https://mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/mwac-observations/entry/1678/

No reason to write off spring skiing on Mount Washington. The snow pack will eventually lock up with warmer temperatures and corn cycles. But we aren't there yet and Washington definitely isn't ready for spring time crowds.

I've always been happy to sit on the sidelines until things lock up. It is always an eye opener when experienced skiers that make generally excellent decisions still get caught. But we all have our own risk tolerances and we all do things that others would consider past their own risk threshold. Sad time for the friends and family of the deceased.

riverc0il wrote

No reason to write off spring skiing on Mount Washington. The snow pack will eventually lock up with warmer temperatures and corn cycles. But we aren't there yet and Washington definitely isn't ready for spring time crowds.

I've always been happy to sit on the sidelines until things lock up. It is always an eye opener when experienced skiers that make generally excellent decisions still get caught. But we all have our own risk tolerances and we all do things that others would consider past their own risk threshold. Sad time for the friends and family of the deceased.

Yes. All of this.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwIxTQuhvob/?fbclid=IwAR0nkIc_tRrlwqQXvA8_SBz4WAxZ6OBhUrZRx8bszcl9U8EUNqcW2VhoNc8