WC Downhill at Whiteface?

Not normally a fan of closing lots of terrain to accommodate a race, but in following the preparation for the event at Killington, I decided to try and design an event for my home mountain.

I designed a WC downhill route that starts on Approach, crosses Mountain Run onto Upper Parkway, and then continues down Thruway to Draper's and ends just below the Tower 10 hill on Fox.  The flat spot there is big enough to accommodate all the amenities at the finish.  It is 1.35 miles long and has a 2,060 vertical drop.  Average grade is 29%.  This is quite similar to the Birds of Prey course at Beaver Creek.

The course would cross under the LWF and Mountain Run lifts, which would both need to be shuttered during the event, but they don't normally open by early December anyways when the circuit is in North America.  The gondola and Facelift would be unaffected, and public skiing could take place on all the normal terrain for that time of year.  The only difference would be that everyone would need to be funneled down Brookside instead of the Tower 10 hill as the finish would be there.  Snowmaking capacity would need to be doubled to cover all the terrain early season.

As the gondola would be open, it could provide spectator access to the start, and people skiing that day might get to ride it with the athletes.  Not sure if the FIS allows that, but it would be pretty cool.

The one cool thing about race events is that it often brings a snow storm.

And a DH race is just super bad ass too. I totally appreciate the skills of the slalom racers but I'm way more of a fan of DH.

Sno you know nothing about races and openly dislike racers.  He has gone from posting insesently about something he actually knew about lifts and MC to annoyingly too much about something he knows so little about the Daks.  Good grief but I almost miss the posts about MC in comparison.

Approach and the connection to parkway are way too narrow and approach is too flat for a DH.  WF has a FIS approved Super G on Parkway thru to finish below the normal finish area about halfway down Fox.  They ran a NorAm SG on it last spring.  It was awesome to watch.

The DH from the summit no longer meets FIS requirements and it pretty much shuts the whole Mt down.  Last used around 2001 for US Champs.  They no longer run a DH for Champs just a SG.

Z, you misinterpreted my earlier comments.  I never said I disliked all people who race.  Not even close.  I was friends with some of the members of the ski team at my high school, and skied with them on the rare days they didn't have training.  If you recall, I even considered joining at one point, but decided against it because I have very little race experience, as well as my previous frustrations that I expressed with the way Mountain Creek held races.  There are 4 "peaks" there, and they frequently closed almost everything on the peak all the way to skier's left, even when they were only racing on one trail.  They did this on the busiest day of the season last year, causing half hour lift lines on the other lift in the base area.  My comments about the teams making a mess of the lodge are also specific to MC, as I didn't have this issue at other mountains I skied at.

Coach Z wrote

 

The DH from the summit no longer meets FIS requirements

Didin't know that Coach --- why is that?

Hey Sno -- in case you didn't know this they had the Olympics at WF so I think they know the best way down the hill for the racers. I wouldn't go reinventing the wheel in your short stay there.

campgottagopee wrote

Coach Z wrote

 

The DH from the summit no longer meets FIS requirements

Didin't know that Coach --- why is that?

Hey Sno -- in case you didn't know this they had the Olympics at WF so I think they know the best way down the hill for the racers. I wouldn't go reinventing the wheel in your short stay there.

My understanding is that the trail width is not wide enough on the exit of Victoria, on Broadway, and in the section where it needs to run under the mid station lodge.   It also takes a ton of man power to set up for a down hill.  Last one we ran in 2001 it was all hands on deck for weeks to get it ready.  The netting on the upper section probably does not meet current standards as well.  FIS has to come in and certify the course every 5 years - a process called homologation.

Classic WC downhills like Wegen are grandfathered in and I thought WF was not but I just checked and apparently this October FIS came in and approved the upper MT courses for a WC DH and SG.  Very interesting as this was not approved in the last go round to my knowledge.  Wonder if they are planning something now that WC's in the East are a thing again.

https://data.fis-ski.com/alpine-skiing/homologations.html?place=Whiteface+Mountain%2C+NY&discipline=&nat=&gender=&homid=1495&type=DET§or=&valid=1

it would likely mean they have to have a plan to pad the living crap out of any narrow spot where they would set a jump or bend in the course.

campgottagopee wrote

Hey Sno -- in case you didn't know this they had the Olympics at WF so I think they know the best way down the hill for the racers. I wouldn't go reinventing the wheel in your short stay there.

Sno-local bro.

raisingarizona wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Hey Sno -- in case you didn't know this they had the Olympics at WF so I think they know the best way down the hill for the racers. I wouldn't go reinventing the wheel in your short stay there.

Sno-local bro.

Dude, you should know it takes more than 4 years and the internet to become local

Until TJ, SJ, HDP, Pants, or Noah John say he's local he ain't local

NICE!!! I hope they're planning on WC back there. If so I'mm sure we'll try and get up there. A few years ago we hit it when NorAm's were there and we had a friggin blast. If they run the DH --- WHOA!! That would be wicked cool to check out.

If they use the DH course from the summit, what is the impact on public terrain?

The route pretty much cuts the place in half, so I assume that means the only public skiing could be in the Mountain Run area.  The route I suggested was supposed to have minimal impact on public terrain, but it looks like it wouldn't pass homologation.

I believe the DH course from the summit is Skyward-Broadway-Valley.  I'm trying to maximize public terrain while holding a race using this route.

The Little Whiteface area would be the least affected.  From Excelsior, a cutoff exists onto Lower Mac, and that would need to be used instead of Upper Valley.  From there, people would Tom Cat to cross onto Thruway, then Draper's, under the Freeway lift, and into the Bear area.  Lower Thruway would be closed below Tom Cat.  The rest of the trails would be unaffected.

The Facelift crosses over the course at two points, one right at the midstation lodge, and one right at the top.  If that lift is closed, then Lookout also has to be closed, and there's no long green run open.  If the FIS allows, install safety nets under the lift at the two locations where it crosses to keep it open.  Brookside and Upper Boreen would allow two full routes to the bottom from there.

As long as the Facelift can be open, Lookout can also be open and terrain there would be unaffected.  Kids Kampus would also be unaffected if the Facelift was open, but if not it would be isolated.

The Summit area is the biggest issue.  Skyward, Cloudspin, and Victoria would be closed because they would merge into the course or are the course.  While Paron's Run could still be open, you can't cross the course at any location, so you'd have to ski either to the LWF chair or Facelift to get back up.  Might be too much trouble to open it at all, even though it would provide excellent course views if open.

I think a locals hot dog inspired bump off and big air event with a bitchen awards/after party with a wet t-shirt contest would be rad and a lot easier to do.

Just as I suggested doing at Gore.

http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Gore-Improvements-Summer-2015-td4064392i100.html

raisingarizona wrote

I think a locals hot dog inspired bump off and big air event with a bitchen awards/after party with a wet t-shirt contest would be rad and a lot easier to do.

FKNA!

I'll volunteer to be a judge

raisingarizona wrote

I think a locals hot dog inspired bump off and big air event with a bitchen awards/after party with a wet t-shirt contest would be rad and a lot easier to do.

Sounds a bit like the bear mountain mogul challenge. I think something like this would be a big hit at  plattekill as well. I think it came up in another thread a while ago

A DH or SG using the summit route pretty much closes everything for public skiing except LWF

It would be really awesome to also do a combined so that would shut everything down.

raisingarizona wrote

I think a locals hot dog inspired bump off and big air event with a bitchen awards/after party with a wet t-shirt contest would be rad and a lot easier to do.

You want this sausage party to engage in a wet t-shirt contest?

I've met a handful of these jokers, and we've all seen the avatars.  Ummm....not sure I want to see Campy in wet camo t any more than the rest.

U b one ill in' mofo, RA!

The WC calendar has everything in the early season for North America.  Could Whiteface pull off an event if they doubled the snowmaking capacity and still have close to the normal public terrain open?

Killington was able to have their event with minimal disruption to public skiing.  Part of that was doing it early season when it wasn't crowded.  I wonder if management would think shutting down everything but LWF was even worth it to hold an event mid season.

Brownski wrote

Sounds a bit like the bear mountain mogul challenge. I think something like this would be a big hit at plattekill as well. I think it came up in another thread a while ago

http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Plattekill-s-Bumpin-Blockbuster-Mogul-Contest-2012-td3837117.html#a3842938

snoloco wrote

The WC calendar has everything in the early season for North America.  Could Whiteface pull off an event if they doubled the snowmaking capacity and still have close to the normal public terrain open?

Killington was able to have their event with minimal disruption to public skiing.  Part of that was doing it early season when it wasn't crowded.  I wonder it management would shutting down everything but LWF even worth it to hold an event mid season.

If you are holding a WC it's not about public skiing that day or the days leading up to it.  Do you think there was public skiing during the Olympics and that anyone but a spoiled teenager cared?

No way to pull a speed weekend off early.  The windows open up for North America later in the season in
Olympic and World Champ seasons particularly if they are in North America or when WC Finals are here.