Whiteface tips

Hi all - my wife and I are heading up to Whiteface for the first time to ski Friday to Sunday (driving up and down on Thursday and Monday).  No kids with us.  

I am reaching out to this knowledgable group for tips on the mountain - where to park, what to ski, good runs for both of us to do, some more challenging ones for me and some fun, easy, lazy ones.  Good warm up runs, etc.  Best time to ski (though presumably that won't be an issue Friday).  Is there any kind of mountain ambassador program where someone skis with you to show places. And any tips on LP restaurants.  Other things to do in LP.  We are staying in Wilmington (hopefully not a mistake, but mistakes are one way to learn).  

Some (hopefully helpful) info about us:
-I identify as a type iii skier.  My wife is bw i and ii.  Both 35 and reasonably good shape but not super fit.  I've skied 5 days this season and my wife 3, which matches her output the past few years in part due to having a 2 yo and almost 5yo.
-we re planning on getting a 2 hour lesson for my wife the first day, so I will certainly have some blocks of time for more challenging stuff.  At the same time, even if the slides were open and I had the gear, I don't think I d be comfortable going out on em.  
- I am just starting to get in bumps which I like but need more practice on. I am assuming the trees are out of play given how the season has been but I kind of view trees as bumps with big fun potentially dangerous obstacles in them.  
- betting that my wife will like a nice green cruiser with nice views.  
- part of the purpose of the trip is to check out a new mountain.   I skied Gore for the Master the Mountain clinic the weekend after President s and loved the mountain and clinic.  WF has so much cool history and is (apparently) really unique in the east so that s why we are heading there.  

Sorry for grammar and stream of consciousness. I partially blame a mobile device.

Thanks in advance - Dom

Request Coach Z by name.

Talk about Bernie the whole time.

:)

Nah, I'm sure he would give you a good tour and tips though.

Bring your beacon/shovel/probe for when the slides open!

The little whiteface chair is underappreciated.

If you stop in the middle of the trail (to look at your friends wipeout), expect some racer jerk to throw you some attitude.

lake placid brewery.

if you decide to hike for a change you could check out Owls Head Mountain and the Mountaineer (nice shop in Keene Valley)

One thing I've done is parked at Kids Kampus to get close to the lift parking.  This was on a holiday weekend and parking shouldn't be an issue unless you plan to arrive at 10.  Get there at open and there'll be plenty of parking that is close at the main base.

As for the best runs, this is a tough one.  Whiteface just isn't ideally suited to anyone less than a type 3 skier.  My dad and I are both type 3's and my mom is a type 2.  She somewhat enjoyed Whiteface last time she went there, but she has limited options in what trails to ski, so when she is coming, we go to Gore or Killington instead.

Lookout still isn't open, so that means The Wilmington Trail is out of the question, unless they hit it hard with snowmaking this week.  That's a great 2+ mile intermediate trail.  It does get skied off, so it's best to hit it early.  Paron's Run off the summit is rated blue, but is possibly the hardest blue-rated trail I've skied in the east.  Basically, don't count on getting to the summit unless you're an advanced/expert skier, not between type 1 and 2 which is low-intermediate.  

Personally, I'd take a couple warm-up runs off the Facelift at first.  Try Boreen first and then step up to Valley.  If comfortable with those, take either the gondola from the base or the Little Whiteface Double Chair from the midstation lodge to the summit of Little Whiteface.  Excelsior is the only blue option off there, but a great, long run.  Lap it off the Little Whiteface lift instead of going to the bottom every time and taking the gondola.

It doesn't always spin midweek, but the Freeway lift serves 3 blue trails from its mid-station.  I don't ski these much because I primarily ski Whiteface in the spring, and these runs are lower and get thin and extremely slushy.  The trail names are Draper's Drop, Lower Parkway, and Lower Thruway.  I don't remember exactly how hard they are in relation to Excelsior, so maybe someone else can comment.  Keep in mind that only advanced terrain is available off the top of the Freeway lift.  Also, only advanced terrain is available off the Mountain Run lift and the midstation of the Little Whiteface lift.

Owl's Head is a good quick hike but keep in mind there's more than one Owl's Head.  I think ML is referring to the one off Route 73 in Cascade Pass.

Lake Placid Brewery and The Cottage.

Great XC in the Lake Placid area.  Besides Van Ho and Cascade Touring Center there's Dewey Mountain in Saranac Lake (highly recommended) and the VIC up in Paul Smiths (a snow pocket).  Plus unlimited (including easy) BC.

Kids Kampus is a great idea if you've got the kids along, but since you don't, base yourself at the main lodge.  Make sure to use the drop-off area, then park your car and jog back.

My wife loves the J.Lohr bar in the base lodge.  Try Boule's Bistro (downstairs) in the mid-mountain lodge.  The beef stew there is excellent.

Skyward should be online by this weekend.  Ski it, but probably don't bring your wife.  The best snow on the mountain this weekend will probably be on Sky, and it's an awesome run.  Essex, Victoria and Mountain Run will all be pretty difficult for your wife.  Upper Thruway and Upper Parkway too.  Better for you to ski them first and then decide.  If all you do is Gondi laps to ski Excelsior, you'll still have a great time and get in a lot of skiing.  It's a long, varied trail that really skis like 3 different trails if you do it T2B.

How can you be a type iii skier but just be getting into bumps?  Ridiculous.  A type 3 skier that doesn't know about glades or the slides.  Yea Snoloco youre a type iii to.  LOL. If you nerds are type iii then I'm type iiii.  Goddamm nerds I tell you.

Get something nice for the babysitter watching the 2 and 5 yo!

That was a good post to create a new user name for Core!

Some....interesting?.....advice from Loco.  Not all bad.  Unfortunately, for a trip this coming weekend a lot of it is irrelevant.

Gotta say, anyone who thinks Paron's is expert terrain to be avoided by anyone who isn't (or doesn't think they are) a Type III skier is probably not a Type III skier, but I digress.....

Advice.  Let me give you my off hill advice about restaurants.  When's the last time you had a weekend without the kiddos?  Maybe you are different but we don't get many.  Enjoy it!  For us that would mean having a nice meal.  Absolutely go the The Whiteface Lodge.  It's worth it to go just to see the resort, absolutely gorgeous.  Two dining options there.  The Lounge is the cheaper/more casual of the two.  Intimate, cozy, on the weekend they will have someone playing a nice acoustic set.  The drinks are primo and the food is wonderful.  Grab a table, or even eat on the comfiest leather couch with coffee table in front of a roaring fire in a huge fireplace.  So comfortable/cozy/romantic/Adirondack-y.  The dining room is gorgeous as well, with the menu being pricey, but very good.  After dinner walk around the grounds.  Head to the hut by the skating rink, grab a hot cocoa, then sit by a roaring fire outside and watch people skate (if it isn't too cold).  Heck, if you skated yourself nobody would chase you off.  Mirror Lake Inn is another great option.  The main dining room isn't cheap, but it's always a great meal.  Very beautiful, romantic Inn.  Lake Placid Brewery.  Stop in for a beer (or two) at the bar.  Food is eh, but nice experience if you wanna eat there.  Not sure when the toboggan chute will open this year, but keep an eye out and if it opens by this weekend it's a blast.

I'll do a separate post for mountain info.

As for the mountain....well, given the weather this season you don't have to worry about bumps or glades, and the Slides are typically a March thing unless it's a great snow year, which.....

So, for late January the available terrain is a little more limited than one would like, but you'll still have a blast.  This past weekend they were up to 43 trails or so.  I'd bet they have 50+ by the weekend.  Lookout will not be in play.  For your wife there will be the Bear lift, which accesses gentle, short greens.  My wife is risk averse and doesn't care to challenge herself, and she stays there.  Ugghhh.  Off the Facelift she will have Easy Street to Boreen.  A couple of short steeper spots on Boreen that could challenge a true beginner, but otherwise a great run.  Long and carveable for those skiing with.  If she's comfortable with that move over to Upper/Lower Valley.  If she's comfortable with U/L Valley then head up the gondola and hit Excelsior.  Gentle, winding blue square territory where the steepest pitch is nice and wide.  Off of Excelsior she could also do Lower Northway/Lower Empire if she's good on the blues.  Here's where your work comes in for her.  If they've groomed Paron's you go up there and scope it out without her.  If the conditions are primo, and she's comfortably skied Excelsior, take her up there.  Yes, it a challenging blue square, but it's definitely blue square.  Heck, even this past weekend, ungroomed with the guns going in extremely variable conditions my 8 year old niece skied it.  Yes, kids have no fear, but you get the idea.  Oh, she's not a Type III.  Those are the options for your wife.  May not seem like a lot of trails, but they cover a lot of very/mileage, and variety within.  A Gondi run to the base covers almost 2,500 vertical.  You could check out Bear Den, but nothing compelling there.

As for you......all of what I just said, you will enjoy.  When you are solo head down Approach to Mountain Run and Upper Parkway and Upper Thruway.  All were open or being blown this past weekend.  Mountain Run is a steepish, straight down the fall line blast.  One of the funnest carving trails on the hill.  When hitting those you may be able to hit Drapers if not closed for racing. From the gondola hit John's Bypass to Victoria for some variety.  The Summit is your next destination. Upper Skyward shouldbe open. They are blowing part of Lower Sky to Webers now, and that's useless without Upper Sky, so the snowmaking should move there next.  Maybe Niagara?  People were even poaching Lower Skyward yesterday and coming out unscathed.  

That's probably going to be it, unless the can pound Wilderness or MacKenzie during the week, both of which some people poached after Sunday night's snow.  Heck, Empire didn't look terrible from Approach and was poached.  I wasn't willing to brave what was under that powder, but I think we are only one good storm away from a lot more coming into play.  Any snow forecast for the week?

A non holiday weekend.....use the Facelift, gondola and summit quad.  Heck, Freeway and Little Whiteface probably won't be turning.  They weren't yesterday, which was a holiday, and the longest gondola line was  maybe 10 minutes, but mostly only 5 or so minutes, walk on at times.  Not a problem to head to the bottom and enjoy the comforts of the gondola.

If it snows during the week or anything else comes into play I'll update for you.  You are going to have a great time!

DomB wrote

Hi all - my wife and I are heading up to Whiteface for the first time to ski Friday to Sunday (driving up and down on Thursday and Monday).  No kids with us.  

I am reaching out to this knowledgable group for tips on the mountain - where to park, what to ski, good runs for both of us to do, some more challenging ones for me and some fun, easy, lazy ones.  Good warm up runs, etc.  Best time to ski (though presumably that won't be an issue Friday).  Is there any kind of mountain ambassador program where someone skis with you to show places. And any tips on LP restaurants.  Other things to do in LP.  We are staying in Wilmington (hopefully not a mistake, but mistakes are one way to learn).  

Some (hopefully helpful) info about us:
-I identify as a type iii skier.  My wife is bw i and ii.  Both 35 and reasonably good shape but not super fit.  I've skied 5 days this season and my wife 3, which matches her output the past few years in part due to having a 2 yo and almost 5yo.
-we re planning on getting a 2 hour lesson for my wife the first day, so I will certainly have some blocks of time for more challenging stuff.  At the same time, even if the slides were open and I had the gear, I don't think I d be comfortable going out on em.  
- I am just starting to get in bumps which I like but need more practice on. I am assuming the trees are out of play given how the season has been but I kind of view trees as bumps with big fun potentially dangerous obstacles in them.  
- betting that my wife will like a nice green cruiser with nice views.  
- part of the purpose of the trip is to check out a new mountain.   I skied Gore for the Master the Mountain clinic the weekend after President s and loved the mountain and clinic.  WF has so much cool history and is (apparently) really unique in the east so that s why we are heading there.  

Sorry for grammar and stream of consciousness. I partially blame a mobile device.

Thanks in advance - Dom

It's a "regular" weekend, so the mountain shouldn't really be all that crowded, unless there's a race going on. The main parking lots will be fine for you. Pull up to the drop-off area to unload your gear (and your wife) and then park. If you get there before 9:00, you should still be able to park in the "River Lot", which is the closest lot to the base lodge (excluding the paid parking lot).

Whiteface, not unlike most mountains, skis best early in the day. Save the late night partying for another trip and get there early for the best conditions. You can ask at the Guest Services desk for a mountain tour. They'll hook you up with a Mountain Host who will take several runs with you and show you around. You may not be able to do this on Friday, as there may not be enough hosts available for a tour on a weekday, but ask anyway.

The options available to you are somewhat limited, due to the reduced terrain available so far this year. Looking at the forecast for the rest of this week, I don't think you're going to have to worry about skiing any trails with bumps or any glades. You should encounter mostly groomed terrain with the possible exception of Skyward. I'm pretty sure they're going to be blowing snow up there all week, so hopefully by the end of the week it will open. When it does open, it will most likely be un-groomed with huge "whales" and lots & lots of "Grade A Man-Made". This will definitely NOT be for your wife, but you should enjoy it.

Best place to start, if you're concerned about your wife, is on the Face Lift. Take the green Easy Street trail to the green Boreen trail. This is a really nice, really long cruiser that you should both enjoy. Assuming she's comfortable with that, the next stop would be the Gondola. Take Excelsior (blue). There's one steep pitch at the beginning of the trail that can intimidate some beginning skiers, but if she's truly a Type II skier, she won't have any problem with it at all. You can stay on Excelsior or switch over to Lower Northway ... they're both about the same from a difficulty perspective. These will lead you back to the top of the Face Lift, where you can choose to take Easy Street or Upper Valley.

If she'd like to go to the summit, I believe that by this weekend, The Follies will be open. It's a green trail that is a series of switch-backs that ultimately leads you into Paron's Run (blue) below it's most difficult pitch. From there, that will lead you back to Excelsior. This will also give her a look at Paron's Run from below so she can decide whether she wants to give it a try or not.

The one trail I would caution you about is Victoria. It's a blue, but it's got a long sustained pitch and it can get skied off pretty quickly. I'd recommend checking it out yourself first to see how the conditions are before bringing your wife onto it.

As for you, as mentioned above, Skyward will likely be open this weekend, so that's going to be the best option for more difficult terrain. You'll also have Mountain Run & Essex as options as well. Upper Thruway & Drapers Drop will probably be closed for race training while you're there, though sometimes they open those to the public later in the day. A good option when the Little Whiteface chair is running is for your wife to take a break in the mid-mountain lodge while you do "laps" on Mountain Run using the Little Whiteface chair. You can then meet her in the lodge for lunch. Go downstairs to Boule's Bistro for a quieter option. (That chair will likely only run on Saturday & Sunday)

As for restaurants, in Wilmington, you'll have Rosalia's for truly authentic Italian food. You'll have to check with them, as their operating schedule is somewhat erratic. Also in Wilmington, the Hungry Trout is pretty good and I've heard that the Wilderness Inn is as well, though I've never been there.

In Lake Placid, depends what you like ... For pub-style food, there's Lisa G's and of course the Lake Placid Pub & Brewery (expect to wait there). For a more eclectic palate, try Liquids & Solids. There's a BBQ place on Main Street called Smoke Signals which is very good ... try the "Flatliner" burger ... it's outrageous! Adirondack Steak & Seafood is probably the best choice for classic "American Steakhouse" cuisine. Delta Blue has pretty good "cajun style" food ... the gumbo is a favorite of mine.

Most of all ... enjoy. With the current forecast, it's shaping up to be one of the best weekends of the season!!!

snoloco wrote

Whiteface just isn't ideally suited to anyone less than a type 3 skier.

Quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever seen posted on this forum.

Yes, the Cottage, can't believe I left that off the options for dining.  Casual and cozy.

I've got at least 10 days at Whiteface and have skied almost every trail, so I know it reasonably well.  Typically when comparing it to other eastern mountains, I find the trails at Whiteface are rated one notch down than trails of similar pitch at other mountains.  Of course there are exceptions.  Valley and Excelsior are accurately rated blue and are similar to blue-rated trails at other mountains.  The Wilmington Trail is a harder blue, but I don't think it deserves a black rating.  

Boreen is rated green, but I'd see that being rated blue at another mountain.  Paron's Run is definitely of black pitch and so is Victoria.  Skyward would be double black at any other mountain, no question.  Hoyt's, Essex, Cloudspin, Empire, and Mackenzie would also likely get a double black rating anywhere else on the ec.  I don't ski Parkway/Thruway much because they aren't usually in good shape in the spring (when I primarily ski WF), so I can't comment on those.

You can scream at how bad of a skier I am (I'm actually a very good skier), but it has no meaning here.  I'm comparing how difficult trails at WF are to me relative to other ec mountains.  At WF, I find that most trails ski one difficulty rating higher than what they actually have.  Some mountains ski accurately to their rating, and others, like Okemo ski one rating below what the trails are actually rates.

Hey, Sno has an opinion, everyone is entitled.  Of course, his opinion doesn't necessarily jive with that of people who have skied Whiteface A LOT more than he has.

Some would say getting his perspective is , as all input is good.  Other would say it's .  Is it entirely ?  Perhaps not, entirely.  Does Boreen (green) have two short sections that might be blue rated elsewhere?  Sure.  Victoria or Paron's are on the high end of difficulty for blue squares, but they are definitely blue.  Only in today's landscape where the double black is overused for marketing purposes would anything off the Summit Quad (Slides not included) or Empire get such a rating.  Props to WF for not doing that $hit.  Front Four at Stowe, Steins and Castlerock (Lift Line, Rumble) at Sugarbush....all double black.  What happened to the days when most difficult was simply that?  Now we have to define ourselves as Experts and differentiate everything and make the Type-whatevers think they are a Type-something else.  Take a look at the MRG  (one of the more difficult EC hills) trail map  and tell me what you don't see?  That's right, not a double black to be found.  Amen to that, and WF, too. That 8 year old niece, not Type III.....she skied Skyward last year, at 7, with good  groomed conditions.  End of rant...

Not sure how anyone who hasn't become proficient in the full gamut, including bumps, trees, powder, etc. can be in a position to pontificate about the relative degree of difficulty in skiing, but like a said, all input is useful, and most warrants a grain of salt, even good advice.

Sno, I'm not screaming that you are a bad skier at all.  I have no doubt that you are technically proficient, and well on your way to being a fine advanced/expert skier some day.  I'll even agree you are Type III if I leave the rhetoric out.  However, your breadth of experience is limited.  It's hard for you to see that at 16, but with age will come wisdom.  But having limited experience (having not gotten far off the groomers, and not comfortable when you do)  your knowledge is similarly limited.  That will change, and we are seeing it happen.  Part of growing up.

As for skier type, it really is inappropriate to bring it into the discussion if you are trying to talk about trail difficulty.  Frankly, they have nothing to do with one another.  One can ski the blue square groomers aggressivly at speed, and prefer a higher than average binding release setting.....but that doesn't mean they ski, or know everything about, most difficult to expert only terrain.

Think about that.  Double black is Expert Only.  Is everyone who can ski Skyward an Expert?  Do they need to be?  You've skied Skyward, are you an Expert?

Oh, and tint the windows so you don't get carjacked.