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I'd post on the actual thread but, I'm not allowed. But, what is with the misinformation? That Mountain Creek has more acreage than Holiday Valley? That is simply not true. HV has 290 compared to MC's 167. Just curious but, have you ever been to HV? I realize most people near the bigger mountains would never travel away from them to ski a smaller mountain. Yea they have lower vertical but, not everything is based off from vertical. To me when fully open it skis like a mini Killington. It's very spread out. I think there are about 6 different faces to HV sloping in different directions. There are some steeper although short runs. The lift system kicks ass and will wear you out to the point you will be looking for a fixed grip if you ride all day. They do have more lifts than Whiteface and almost all of them are high speeds. They get a lot of natural snow and they have good snowmaking capabilities. There is plenty of woods to ride if you are ok with going off trail to unmarked woods. I'm sure most of the people that have negative things to say about the place haven't actually skied there. No, I wouldn't rank it as a very difficult mountain but, it does make up for that in a lot of other ways.
BTW Harv, you should just pay up when it comes to tuition. I mean you expect people to pay up when they goto Plattekill. Why should you be able to find some loophole to get out of 10k a year? You make the big bucks, that's why you live in the city and that's your choice to live there. You say "I am not trying to perpetrate a scam. I would live in NY now if I could." But, the fact remains you don't live in NY and these rules are in place to keep people like you from claiming you do in order to "scam" the system.
Since I can not reply to my own thread, I will edit it into my original.
"I have never been to HV and have no plans to. My son won't likely ever race there as you don't have enough vert to run races for anything but a U12 GS maybe a SL at U14 but that would be the only reason I'd go there.
I grew up in the Midwest skiing on hills and Vert absolutely matters other wise you spend more time in line and on the chair than skiing. If location didn't matter there is no way you could convince me that HV would be chosen over any of the other top 20 resorts in those Ski rankings. There are another 20 at least beyond that that didn't make that list that also would be chosen like Gore or Magic and dozens of true mountains in Quebec as well like Mt St Anne. I could make a strong case that despite its location (essentially the Midwest) that HV doesn't belong in the top 50 Eastern ski areas. If Jimmy Peak where an hour from HV which one would get rated higher?
Oh and for a true Mt 160 inches of avg annual snow is not a lot. WF gets 180 annually which is low compared to most of VT. Your low elevation means 160 does last very long in comparison."
As I expected, you haven't been to Holiday Valley. I would comment on Jiminy Peak but, I've never been there. It's really hard to take you seriously when you comment on a place you admit you have never been to or never will goto but, you know so much about. I get your point that it is not fit for races although their longest trail, the Mardi Gras trail under the Mardi Gras lift is 4400' long. Though it is a blue. I don't understand why you continue to throw out incorrect facts. Their annual at HV is 180", the same as WF. Yes I agree their low elevation lets it melt earlier. But, that 180" comes mostly in the early months because of lake effect. So if you are to go there in late December or early January they are almost always 100% open. How often is Whiteface 100% open in early January? I would disagree with you about waiting in line or spending too much time on lifts there. I feel like I get a lot of skiing in there. Their lift system is so impressive with almost all high speed squads you spend very little time on the lift. And with the sheer number of lifts, I have never really waited in a line that lasted more than a few minutes. I'll admit though I have never been there on a weekend but, I've been there on numerous powder days. Like I said before, all the big mountains are a lot more challenging and a lot more fun than Holiday Valley. But, not if they don't have snow yet. I do prefer a more challenging mountain but, usually in late Dec or early Jan it's not worth my time to drive the distance to the ADKs or Vermont when none of the mountains are even close to 100% open. When they are both 100% open I choose the big mountains every time.
As for Harvey
"The TR forum is for TRs only. If you post a something other than a TR in there again you're gone."
Look dude, I can't post in any other category other than trip reports. I can't reply to the intended thread. If you want to be a blow hard tough guy then ban me. What's it matter? You ban me all the time anyways and for basically nothing. I'm practically banned now with the restrictions you have on me now like only can post in trip reports once a day. What do you expect? Stop trying to scam the system and pay up if you want your kid to goto a Suny school. The nerve of some people to think they have some right to scam the system. I think less of your character everytime you type something.
And btw Camp, you are a swell guy.
In reply to coach
"Oh crap was that a Glade incarnation trolling me?
I was trying to nice to that dude too"
Since when is having a polite conversation talking about and correcting your facts on ski hills considered trolling? Is it wrong to point out people's misconceptions and false facts to hills they have never been to but, seem to know so much about?
Either way of the facts, you don't even ac knowledge that it takes Whiteface 6 months to accumulate a 180" average. HV puts the majority of their total up in 2 months.
2:52 pm
I see you corrected your mistake Coach. Also another interesting fact to point out between the two mountains. Or one mountain and one hill are the total uphill capacity. Whiteface sits at 10,385 people per hour while HV's capacity is 23,850 per hour.
Now back to acreage which is what started this conversation. Their skiable acreage is 290. But, that is just labeled trails including maybe 3 labeled glades. The entire hills acreage is 1400. There is a lot of woods there that is rideable. And you look pretty badass there being the only one ripping up the off trail woods since no one there skis them. Which also means more powder for longer in the woods without it being tracked up together with deep snow in the early months.
I get it, you are core Coach. You ride the best vertical in the east. Vertical is always a big factor to me but, other things do come into play.
3:05 pm
in reply to Coach:
"From looking at the trail map it's laid out like a very mini version of Park City where you can't ski the whole vert in one run and stringing lifts diagonally up the hill making me dislike it even more. It's a trick ski area designers use to try to make more out of what's really there and it just doesn't work."
They are only strung up diagonally up the hill because there are multiple faces to the hill. Like I said earlier there is at least 6 different faces to the hill. I don't think it is a trick. It's more of a good design to maximize what they have. See they make the most out of what they have, the factors they have control of. The factors that they don't have control of is the geography. I know you are used to the state run bs that is Whiteface. Whiteface is a great natural place. But, it isn't run with any efficiency or logic. That was my main attack against Whiteface last year that was blown out of proportion. Imagine what Holiday Valley would do if they owned Whiteface. You would be blown away by what they would get out of that place. HV has short vertical and is a hill. But, HV knows how to run a ski resort. They put money into their resort constantly and they turn a profit regularly. Whiteface hasn't a clue. They almost certainly lose money every year.
3:15pm
Also researched it and your true vertical off the Mardi Gras lift is about 600. Not a lot to pump anyone up over. I remember I felt the same way about them like you before I went there. Reading the stats, I didn't know if it was even worth the 3 hr drive for 750 vertical when my home mtn is 1000. But, going there changed my opinion of that and made me realize vertical wasn't everything. Before that vertical was the be all stat I'd be looking for. I hope you can check it out one day. At least their vertical isn't as bad of a trick as say the 2537' boasted by Gore.
10/22/15 12:15 pm
in reply to coach z
"I have not skied Bristol but it looks decent on the map with 1200 vert that looks like its continous. Who can tell me about Bristol?"
It's been a few years since I've been to Bristol but, I used to go there quite a bit before I started hitting big mountains. They are pulling that little trick you were talking about as the only way to hit the 1200' vertical in its entirety is to use the lift that goes over the park and go down greens to the base, or go down a flat traverse back to the main area and skiing down. I never really felt like I was skiing 1200' of vertical while there. Seemed more like 1000' to me as it always felt similar to Greek in respect to vertical.
However, I always thought Bristol made the most of the 160 acres they have. They have a couple high speed quads, one of which I rarely see run because of the lack of major crowds during weekdays and weeknights. I'm sure it gets used during the weekends which I have never experienced. They have a slower quad over the double black park which is nice just to watch people in action on a real park even if you aren't into that sort of thing. They also have a single black park to the right of the double black park. The parks are set up logically with features that progressively get bigger as you make it towards the bottom. They have a quarter pipe and a half pipe that is well maintained. I usually hit the first 3 jumps or so in the park but, the bigger ones are too big for me. But, I regularly see inverted aerials on the lower jumps from the lift.
It's basically 100% lit aside from one trail. They are the pioneers of night skiing. And the 1 unlit trail can be skied at night due to the light on both sides of you. That is 1 of the only 2 double blacks, mainly due to its narrowness. The other is Comet which I'm pretty sure your son will be racing on. It's definitely steep. Not super steep but, pretty steep compared by western NY standards. The main face of the mountain seems dome shaped. Where it doesn't seem too steep but, you constantly pick up speed without even trying. Sometimes hitting small bumps that skip you across the trail if you are going fast enough, clearing long distances. The main face definitely makes me want to check my speed, especially when it is hard pack, which it usually is there.
I used to be really impressed with Bristol compared to other smaller places I had skied before such as Greek, Song and Elk. They are a well run operation. But, I actually believe it or not prefer Holiday Valley due to vastness of acreage, natural snow and woods. Bristol doesn't have any glades. There are gladed out areas along the edges of some trails but, you can't really get in them too deep. You just kind of ride the woods alongside of the trail. But, vertical is your thing and it is the best vertical you can find west of the ADK's and Catskills aside from out west.
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