Cuomo announces plan for free state tuition

This could be a good thing:

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/politics-on-the-hudson/2017/01/03/cuomo-propose-free-tuition-suny/96103512/

Certainly a good thing for my dad's job in textbook publishing.  Not sure how they're exactly going to pay for it though.

I respectfully disagree PeeTex. Like I've mentioned in here before, when I graduated I carried a debt load of aprox 25K, and that was in the late 80's. And back them my family's income was most likely in the neighborhood of 50K.
Seems as tho not much has really changed and all this will do is teach kids that being lazy and expecting handouts will be the norm. No such thing as free lunch.

From the article --- I call foul!

In 2015, the the average student loan debt in New York was $29,320.

"That is not fair. That is not right," Cuomo said.

"The rule of the game was everybody has a fair shot at success -- that is America. And when you take that away, you take away the spirit and the values that made this country this country."

I was going to make a snide comment about how people like camp wouldn't approve until they get their $25k back, but I thought it was kinda dick.

And now camp comes on and says he doesn't approve and wants his $25k back! Amazing!

This is why we, as a country, can't have nice things. Buncha selfish pricks who feel like other people should have to swim through shit just because they stepped in dog poo one time. I can't figure out why asshole politicians call Social Security and Medicare "Entitlements", but refuse to call the older people who took advantage of the 1960s-1990s low tuition costs, low medical costs, and employer provided pensions "entitled".

Show me in this thread where I said that?
Sure , that's exactly how I feel about it too, honestly. And so you disagree with me which makes me a dick. Interesting.

It's fine with me that you want to hand out shit out for free, just don't expect other's who have had to work thru college(like me) to agree with you. All that tells me is maybe you never really had to work for anything??? But now that I say that my gut tells me I'm wrong.

Cry me a friggin river

SUNY in-state tuition at 4 year schools is a bargain at around $6500/year ($21,550 for out of state). The problem is the room and board and the fees.
Geneseo r&b is $12,264 and the fees are $1706.
Binghampton r&b is $14,348. and the fees are $2801.

All these schools have way too much administration - that needs to be attacked. Unfortunately, it is fashionable to roll out the free tuition song.

The long and short of it, I think, is that there is a balance you need to try to strike.

I think the best policy would be to have at least low guaranteed student loan rates with a combination of what it appears Cuomo is proposing.  Camp keep in mind hat there are many places in NY where 125k is not solidly middle class.  Of course people make choices about where to live and how large a family to have.  

I don't usually post in this thread, but like many this is an issue that affects me and will have an effect on future generations.  On one hand, it is a shame that students taking out loans they intend to repay are paying 8 or 9 percent once they breach the low subsidized levels.   Considering the law has interpreed student loans to be nearly nondischargeable, for kids who want access, it is a shame.  

At the same time, for better or worse, sometimes when people feel they don't have skin in the game, they waste time and money.  Case in point - my wife's friend teaches at community college and is liberal.  Based on her view of the aid kids get at a city university vs the lack of effort she sees, she doesn't think college should be free universily.  Of course kids at community can be less motivated (but sometimes bare more so).

In my case, I got lucky and graduated from advanced schooling when rates were 1.8 percent.  Also, I can tell you that without a combination of scholarship s and cheap loans, a state school and graduate school would have been impossible to swing.  I guess I am approaching mid career now, and things have gone well for me; however I would be kidding myself to believe the presence of low rate loans and scholarships was not an important factor.  My father is an immigrant, my mother first generation, and I married an immigrant with a similar educational path.

I was in a lucrative private practice area and switched to a much less well paying but more rewarding and flexible public service job not too long after my 5 to was born.   I have benefited from my luck and hard work but now I conciously leave money on the table to be back in public service and have a quality of life (relatively speaking).  I know many don't get to make a choice and just get the hand they are dealt.   Sorry for length.  

I went to Binghamton on a shoestring.  Many don't know that the uni s bring money into the state coffers.  Accordingly you could argue the SUNY s are a form of tax.  Probably more so on out of staters.  

x10003q wrote

SUNY in-state tuition at 4 year schools is a bargain at around $6500/year ($21,550 for out of state). The problem is the room and board and the fees.
Geneseo r&b is $12,264 and the fees are $1706.
Binghampton r&b is $14,348. and the fees are $2801.

All these schools have way too much administration - that needs to be attacked. Unfortunately, it is fashionable to roll out the free tuition song.

If tuition is a bargain and room & board is the big expense, then it's not the administration that's the big cost driver - it's the fact that it costs a lot of money to pay for rent and food, and that seems to be a common problem everywhere, not just at college.

And camp, I was just going by what you said in the Manufacturing thread:

campgottagopee wrote

We will simply agree to disagree on the free college stuff. Kids should simply get their guaranteed student loans (just like I did), work thru college (just like I did), get out of college, get a job and pay the loan back (just like I did). We don't need free shit.

And:

campgottagopee wrote

Got the 420 post with that one

OK, fine. You guys want to give away free college???? Somebody give me a check for 25K and I'm for it. That way I can pay my health insurance that just went up 20 bucks a week

I agree DomB, there should be common ground on this issue. Put the loans out there at 0%, I'd be all for it. Kids need to learn a good work ethic, and as you say, with no skin in the game how will they learn that.

My college was paid the same way yours was. Small scholarship, every student loan I could get, I worked thru college, as well as my parents helped out where they could.

Yes. We just disagree MC2  and that's fine with me, obviously not with you. It's OK tho, you'll get over it

DomB wrote

Probably more so on out of staters.

Most State Universities do this. I almost went to UVM, but it was super expensive for a NYer (until I would have been able to establish residency).

The reason that things get worse is because of the attitude that some people have about change. Any change for the good is met with derision from people who didn't have that benefit ("free college is bad because I had to pay", "a universal basic income is terrible because I had to work", "single payer health care is awful because I had to pay co-pays and premiums, so everyone else should, too!"). The people that make these arguments usually don't understand how bad things have gotten. Look up how much it would cost to attend the college you went to if you just started now. Look at how much health care costs have gone up. My Aunt had a 4 hour surgery and her doctor billed her health insurance company $198,000. That was just the doctor, the anesthesiologist was additional. Look at how much it costs for rent in comparison to the median income - especially in cities.

When left to the free market, the things that people need (education, housing, health care) grow increasingly unaffordable. The last thing we need is a bunch of crotchety old geezers whining that those young'uns have it so easy, they should just do what the geezers did.

Thankfully not everyone thinks like you do MC

Yes, thank God we don't live in a world full of kind, compassionate people who help each other by using the government to force collective action to solve the inherent problems of humankind. I much prefer this soulless existence, planet destruction, and constant struggle for survival amidst an ever hostile competition for diminishing resources.

There are definitely tricky issues.  I don't know what the right answer is, but even good attempts to deal with issues have unintended consequences.I may be wrong but for example the deal that led to legislation allowing for laons to be forgiven over time was tied to keeping rates higher.  So the d of Ed generates a bunch of revenue.   Dems don't like it because they want college financing to be cheaper and repubs don't like it because they don't want a d o e.  (Gross generalizations of course).  

I am really sorry to hear about your aunt's situation.   I hope it goes as well as possible.   From my own experience I didn't have reliable health insurance until I was 25.   I don't think it was because my parents were lazy.   The small employers they were working for usually just didn't give that benefit.  

mattchuck2 wrote

Yes, thank God we don't live in a world full of kind, compassionate people who help each other by using the government to force collective action to solve the inherent problems of humankind. I much prefer this soulless existence, planet destruction, and constant struggle for survival amidst an ever hostile competition for diminishing resources.

boom!  CampInOverHisHead... Boom!!  

^^^ total smack down on CampTypeTypeFingers!!  I got the 420 thread with a call out of an epic smacked down of the camper by MC2.  

Camp  MC2 is way smarter than you bro!

It's interesting to see that when someone may view something differently that you they become a mean/bad person.

ScottyJack wrote

^^^ total smack down on CampTypeTypeFingers!!  I got the 420 thread with a call out of an epic smacked down of the camper by MC2.  

Camp  MC2 is way smarter than you bro!

You need work on your reading comprehension. I asked him to show me IN THIS THREAD where I said that. I didn't. I know I stated that in another thread a while ago. It's cool

Carry on silly man

campgottagopee wrote

It's interesting to see that when someone may view something differently that you they become a mean/bad person.

Nobody said that. You're reading things into my words that aren't there.