Gore skier visits down 44%, WF down 22%

CONTENTS DELETED

i skied at gore once. that couldn't of helped. on the upside , i got a real nice parking spot, upper lot.

Wow 44 percent drop is huge. , i wonder if season pass sales helped much to offset that same kind of precipitous drop in revenue ?

None the less it will be a difficult year for ORDA with both of those places in deficit

It is interesting that Gore is releasing skier visit numbers after not releasing them for a few seasons.
http://nyskiblog.com/orda-skier-visits/

I would guess that WF pulls better numbers due to more multiday/overnight visits, more snow, colder temps for snowmaking and more advertising vs Gore.

118,127 visits (93K less than last year) for Gore as of April 7th is a horrible number. Whiteface had 165,398 ticket sales, down 47K from last season. The Whiteface number, while low, is still in the range of the last 10 years.

I wondered where that number came from and if the ORDA annual report will reflect it.  Traditionally Gore visit numbers included an estimate for passholder days.

I would think that they could be compelled to give up those numbers by a FOIL request, no?

If Whiteface had all of the lifts going by Christmas skier visits would have been up 200-3000%.

Marcski wrote

I would think that they could be compelled to give up those numbers by a FOIL request, no?

Yes

ml242 wrote

If Whiteface had all of the lifts going by Christmas skier visits would have been up 200-3000%.

 

All pods by Christmas! No exceptions!

Jeez, you would think that all that marketing they did downstate over the last few years would have brought in more skiers. Oh, wait.

raisingarizona wrote

ml242 wrote

If Whiteface had all of the lifts going by Christmas skier visits would have been up 200-3000%.

 

All pods by Christmas! No exceptions!

Wow, what's done at most ec mountains most years isn't reasonable?

snoloco wrote

Wow, what's done at most ec mountains most years isn't reasonable?

No doubt ski areas would like, nay love, to have all their pods open by Christmas.  It's a yooge jumpstart on the season.

But most ec mountains most years?  Not saying I know, I don't. But if you stick to alpine lift served only there must be 150 ski areas?  If there are 150 and most is even one more than half... 76 ski mountains with all terrain pods open seems like a stretch.

Numbers? I want to be wrong on this.

Harvey wrote

No doubt ski areas would like, nay love, to have all their pods open by Christmas.  It's a yooge jumpstart on the season.

But most ec mountains most years?  Not saying I know, I don't. But if you stick to alpine lift served only there must be 150 ski areas?  If there are 150 and most is even one more than half... 76 ski mountains with all terrain pods open seems like a stretch.

Numbers? I want to be wrong on this.

Don't worry, it basically never happens.

No need to FOIL fellas.  I've gotten the numbers directly from Gore/ORDA each year for a series of posts on my blog tagged with the label "By the Numbers:"

2011-12:   156K Gore,  165K WF
2012-13:   195K Gore,  195K WF
2013-14:   203K Gore,  214K WF
2014-15:   214K Gore,  216K WF

So yeah, the 118K for Gore this past winter looks pretty stark, even compared to 2011-12.  Harv, feel free to use those numbers^^ to update your skier visits table if you'd like.

Wow, bad news for sure. No doubt West Mtn got hammered even worse.

Is it really wealth disparity as some stated ? If most on here are middle class, don't we live better than that same class did 50 years ago ?

I would add that this trend extends across most sectors of athletic entertainment and " out of the house " activities - all are declining. People just stay home and watch cable tv, play on the web etc. It seems to me to have started in earnest when cable TV came out.

Someone on here  (RA?) said recently ....Give a kid a baseball nowadays and he'll ask " where do the batteries go ?".

Sad but true.

Adk Jeff wrote

No need to FOIL fellas.  I've gotten the numbers directly from Gore/ORDA each year for a series of posts on my blog tagged with the label "By the Numbers:"

2011-12:   156K Gore,  165K WF
2012-13:   195K Gore,  195K WF
2013-14:   203K Gore,  214K WF
2014-15:   214K Gore,  216K WF

So yeah, the 118K for Gore this past winter looks pretty stark, even compared to 2011-12.  Harv, feel free to use those numbers^^ to update your skier visits table if you'd like.

These skier visit numbers for Gore are an epic fail. This is not on Gore local management - this is on ORDA. It is clear that ORDA really answers to nobody. NYS has plowed millions of tax dollars into Gore and the best they can do is maybe 220K visits? How is it Gore cannot add another 50K visits? Gore has added almost 200 acres in the last 20 years, upgraded the snowmaking, upgraded the gondola, upgrade the HST to a HSQ, added a monster HSQ, upgraded the base area, added the Ski Bowl, an entrance to Gore on the main road and yet they still are drawing the same numbers?

Just to compare - Mt Snow seems to be hovering around 500K visits, Stratton a little less and Okemo is up around 600K. Think of what 50K visits would do for Gore's bottom line, yet really not effect the skiing experience.

Unfortunately, the clear conflict of interest between the ORDA/Lake Placid directors filling beds in LP vs marketing Gore to the NYC metro area rears its ugly head again.

x10003q wrote

These skier visit numbers for Gore are an epic fail.

Huh?? They have been growing at a very respectable rate each year and the lump after 2011/12 was Yooge.
Yea, they had a suck-o season but that is excusable due to the weather.

Lodging/RealEstate.

It is the massive glaring hole in the business model for Gore. Mt Snow and especially Stratton and Okemo have a massive selection in on Mountain or Mountain Run lodging options. For the skier family of the 2000's this is a product they want and Gore can't offer it. Thats not Gore's fault, just its reality.

Whiteface fairs better due to its proximity to Lake Placid and all that it provides for off mountain activities/lodging. What does ORDA Market for Gore to NYC area customers who are driving 4-5hours especially in a year where the mountain itself as a product may be lacking due to the weather?  Unless ORDA plans to build a faux ski village like Stratton at Gore, you simply can not compete with what Lake Placid is, along with its history, to downstate skiers.

I live in Orange County NY and usually I make a few trips up to the ADK's in the winter and split my time between Gore and Whiteface. This year I did not go to Gore because for an extra 50 minute drive I can go to Whiteface, who did seem to get more natural snow this year, and had better bailout options in the event things turned south on the mountain. Hiking in the high peaks, things to do in LP itself, better lodging options.

As much as we want to rail on Sno for his snowmaking holy war, this year Gore was crushed because of the product rollout and there is nothing else to sell besides their trails.
Day trippers/Joe and Jane Weekender had a choice and they choose to go to other places with more open terrain and more options in the event the mountain wasn't up to snuff, aka Vermont.

Part of Orda's mission is to drive economic activity in the areas around the venues.  LP has the most venues.  It also has the businesses to capitalize on the traffic the ski areas generate.

Despite the last few years Gore almost having the same number of skier days the area around there has very little in the way of businesses to capture spend.  How is that Orda's fault?  Even little Wilmington is making it happen for themselves.  I don't think that is happening in North Creek.

evantful wrote

Lodging/RealEstate.

It is the massive glaring hole in the business model for Gore. Mt Snow and especially Stratton and Okemo have a massive selection in on Mountain or Mountain Run lodging options. For the skier family of the 2000's this is a product they want and Gore can't offer it. Thats not Gore's fault, just its reality.

Whiteface fairs better due to its proximity to Lake Placid and all that it provides for off mountain activities/lodging. What does ORDA Market for Gore to NYC area customers who are driving 4-5hours especially in a year where the mountain itself as a product may be lacking due to the weather?  Unless ORDA plans to build a faux ski village like Stratton at Gore, you simply can not compete with what Lake Placid is, along with its history, to downstate skiers.

I live in Orange County NY and usually I make a few trips up to the ADK's in the winter and split my time between Gore and Whiteface. This year I did not go to Gore because for an extra 50 minute drive I can go to Whiteface, who did seem to get more natural snow this year, and had better bailout options in the event things turned south on the mountain. Hiking in the high peaks, things to do in LP itself, better lodging options.

As much as we want to rail on Sno for his snowmaking holy war, this year Gore was crushed because of the product rollout and there is nothing else to sell besides their trails.
Day trippers/Joe and Jane Weekender had a choice and they choose to go to other places with more open terrain and more options in the event the mountain wasn't up to snuff, aka Vermont.

Be careful what you hope for. To me, and a lot of skiers, Gore is attractive simply because of the lack of crowds, and the lack of housing is, as you said, a major reason for that.