I Take It All Back

Don't get too riled up over what I said.  It was just a stupid response to the Go Pee man's (not PeeTex).  I'm not nearly as into skiing as some of you guys are.  And if I had to pick an area that I wouldn't give up, it would be Nordic Backcountry.  I prefer Eastern Mountaineering in snowshoes myself.

I have and will ski groomed both Alpine and Nordic - but I don't enjoy it as much.

MikeK wrote

Don't get too riled up over what I said.  It was just a stupid response to the Go Pee man's (not PeeTex).  I'm not nearly as into skiing as some of you guys are.  And if I had to pick an area that I wouldn't give up, it would be Nordic Backcountry.  I prefer Eastern Mountaineering in snowshoes myself.

I have and will ski groomed both Alpine and Nordic - but I don't enjoy it as much.

LOL ok I was hoping you weren't going troll on us Mike.

I've really tried to like snowshoeing but I just can't get it to it. Going up or down I just like skiing more.  Flats too.  I like the feeling of sliding on natural snow. Also kind of oddly I really like to sidestep traverse.  The wide waxless skis, with plastic boots are so versatile.

Zelda and I have gotten in lift-served skiing in the last ten years mostly because of our daughter. It just seems easier to take little kids out (and back inside) at a ski resort.  And it's really fun to ski with them.

Two years ago I realized I wanted to start the move back to nordic and a few of us skied a very accessible slide. It was a blast. Some people don't get working all day for a few hundred feet of vert, and that's what keeps it peaceful and untracked.

Last season maybe 20% of my ski days were nordic and I'm hoping to up that this season.  There is some nice skiing really close to our place.

Oh I hate snowshoes on flats... only time I like them is climbing, and on rugged, choppy stuff that would be hard with skis.  Well and they are much easier coming down that same rugged, steep crap than trying to ski it.  You can glissade on them a bit.

It's hard to convey sarcasm on a message board.  It usually needs to be pointed out.

Anyway I don't do much mountaineering.  But I do have a lot of turf I'd like to visit in Harvey's backyard aka Siamese Ponds.  Lets hope for lots of natural snow!

Oh and back on topic.  I'd give my left you know what to ski in Utah.  Backcountry, frontcountry, whatever... if you have the chance, GO!

I found what I consider a pretty good deal on skiing at Snowbird.  A 5 night stay at The Cliff Lodge (which is ski on ski off), two 4 day lift tickets, and ground transportation to and from SLC cost 2,386 all together.  No need for a rental car and the only thing left to pay for is airfare.  Is that a reasonable price, or is it overpriced?  Speaking of airfare, I got lucky and my flight back from Montana/Wyoming has wifi, so I will be on a lot for the next 3 hours.

snoloco wrote

  The west is about powder, not grooming.  

No reason that attitude can't be taken here. You got a better shot here scoring powder here than on some trip planned months in advance.

You could do that trip a lot cheaper if you stayed at a Random Chain Hotel in Sandy, UT. But if you must do Slopeside, you should stay where TBatt works:

http://www.goldminersdaughterlodge.com/

Or the Alta Peruvian. That place is cool, too.

skimore wrote

snoloco wrote

  The west is about powder, not grooming.  

No reason that attitude can't be taken here. You got a better shot here scoring powder here than on some trip planned months in advance.

That's a novel idea, but I don't think he will, even if he does get to ski out west.

It seems to me I know or come across many people who ski out west and only ski groomed terrain back east.  I think it's mainly laziness.  It takes effort to find or get to wild snow in the east.  There are lifts running to it everywhere out west.  Helo's too. There are lifts running to it here as well, but it's more rare.

So if the lifts all over the world shut down during ski season who would still be skiing?  Those are the real skiers I suppose... I guess there was some truth to my little jab.

snoloco wrote

I found what I consider a pretty good deal on skiing at Snowbird.  A 5 night stay at The Cliff Lodge (which is ski on ski off), two 4 day lift tickets, and ground transportation to and from SLC cost 2,386 all together.  No need for a rental car and the only thing left to pay for is airfare.  Is that a reasonable price, or is it overpriced?  

Everyone is going to have a different perspective on price, it all depends on what you value for how much and where your budget is. $2400 for 4 days of skiing at SLC (arguably one of the cheaper destinations for east coast skiers) without air sounds like a rip off to me. I wouldn't take that even with air for that price. I did 5 days at Jackson Hole for $1200 including air and 6 nights lodging on hill (in a hostel albeit but it still worked out to almost $80/night lodging) and I considered that pretty darn expensive but a decent deal for JH which has much higher airfare and lift tickets than SLC.

But everyone has their own budget and that is subjective depending on income levels and individual views on value and worth. Is it a good deal? Not to me but it might be to someone, I don't know. You could certainly do much much cheaper, I am sure. Maybe not at a fancy slopeside lodge, though.

Pretty soon this kid will be sporting teles loving the double on the Darkside with a beard decked out in black.  

skimore wrote

No reason that attitude can't be taken here. You got a better shot here scoring powder here than on some trip planned months in advance.

That is why it took me YEARS to pony up a season's worth of ski tickets to ski five days out west. For those of us that are flexible and close, there is NO reason to go west for powder unless you can book at the very last minute and treat a flight and stay out west the same as a last minute vaca day in the northeast. I ultimately went for the experience, something new and exciting, and the terrain. I'd never book in advanced out west for powder, I have infinitely better odds sniping powder days in the east. But go figure, it snowed 8" everyday when I went to JH. But I would never count on that.

Chris@GORE wrote

Pretty soon this kid will be sporting teles loving the double on the Darkside with a beard decked out in black.

That's a hilarious mental image

riverc0il wrote

That is why it took me YEARS to pony up a season's worth of ski tickets to ski five days out west. For those of us that are flexible and close, there is NO reason to go west for powder unless you can book at the very last minute and treat a flight and stay out west the same as a last minute vaca day in the northeast. I ultimately went for the experience, something new and exciting, and the terrain. I'd never book in advanced out west for powder, I have infinitely better odds sniping powder days in the east. But go figure, it snowed 8" everyday when I went to JH. But I would never count on that.

The exact reason I bailed on a Yukon trip a couple years ago. They only ended up with one decent  day out of 7. I'm done booking trips in advance to scrape around some mtn. I've had my best ski days cherry picking here over jumping on a plane

PeeTex wrote

We too have lots of powder days in the east. But we also have a lot of people and limited terrain. A weekend powder day is usually only good for 1 run on the groomed before it's chopped. The woods you can get a few and then you need much better skills to fill out your day. So to learn pow techniques in the east is hard. It can be done but the process is slow.

Same can be said about many places out west. Alta on a powder day is like powder hr. Then you have to work for it

snoloco wrote

A 5 night stay at The Cliff Lodge (which is ski on ski off), two 4 day lift tickets, and ground transportation to and from SLC cost 2,386 all together.  

Richie Rich over here.

I thought I knew everything at 14, too.

Then I turned 15 and I  REALLY  knew everything!

MikeK wrote

So if the lifts all over the world shut down during ski season who would still be skiing?  Those are the real skiers I suppose... I guess there was some truth to my little jab.

Me. I would ski. Skimore, MC, tBatt, SBR, ML, ScottyJack, Suds, Chris, Shaman, MadPat, Peter,... a bunch of us. Who else? Add your name below.

That's why I asked about the definition of grooming.  Your definition was pretty narrow, but if you widen it to include any manmade improvement that makes it easier to slide on snow... glade pruning, trail mowing, lifts, maintained backcountry trails that get you closer to slides, even previous logging... our whole experience is groomed to some extent.  In the Siamese I use groomed trails to get to untracked ungroomed snow.

My point is that if you ride lifts to ski the Whiteface Slides, or ski pruned glades, or do dawn patrol on resort trails, you are using the infrastructure that only exists because people will pay to ski groomed trails with snowmaking.  The skis I'm often on only exist because there is ski industry. If you'd rather snowshoe this may not apply to you.

mattchuck2 wrote

Chris@GORE wrote

Pretty soon this kid will be sporting teles loving the double on the Darkside with a beard decked out in black.

That's a hilarious mental image

Yea and we'd welcome you over there!

Sno gotta give you credit for this whole thread bro.  

Harvey wrote

MikeK wrote

So if the lifts all over the world shut down during ski season who would still be skiing?  Those are the real skiers I suppose... I guess there was some truth to my little jab.

Me. I would ski. Skimore, MC, tBatt, SBR, ML, ScottyJack, Suds, Chris, Shaman, MadPat, Peter,... a bunch of us. Who else? Add your name below.

That's why I asked about the definition of grooming.  Your definition was pretty narrow, but if you widen it to include any manmade improvement that makes it easier to slide on snow... glade pruning, trail mowing, lifts, maintained backcountry trails that get you closer to slides, even previous logging... our whole experience is groomed to some extent.  In the Siamese I use groomed trails to get to untracked ungroomed snow.

My point is that if you ride lifts to ski the Whiteface Slides, or ski pruned glades, or do dawn patrol on resort trails, you are using the infrastructure that only exists because people will pay to ski groomed trails with snowmaking.  The skis I'm often on only exist because there is ski industry. If you'd rather snowshoe this may not apply to you.

I would ski.  I do ski.  No lift required.  And I'm not 'hardcore'.

Snowshoes are a good tool for climbing certain trails that don't condone themselves to skiing.  Think the majority of the 46 (although there are plenty of small, steep ridges and mountains that fit the bill).  Not many have done them all on skis... and those that have may not have used the usual hiking routes.

All too often in my winter climbing I've gone up and down stuff that is beyond my skiing ability, on snowshoes of course.  Often it is beyond my snowshoe ability and I switch to crampons.  And if it's beyond my crampon ability, I find a different way!

There are those that are better skiers and those trails and paths that are more suited to skis.

I got kind of lost in my rant above.

What I'm really saying is that in my opinion it's bs for anyone to tell snoloco or anyone that they aren't a real skier because of what or how they like to ski.

Sounds like you don't think of yourself as (primarily) a skier. Reading your post above it seems like you're more driven the terrain you want to explore. Your goal is to be out in the high peaks and you pick the best gear for that job.  I still think of you as a real skier.

I want to ski.  I don't get to the high peaks much because it's easier for me to ski elsewhere for a variety of reasons including some of the ones you mentioned. I want to be on skis and I factor in cost and time and snow quality and family stuff and make my choice.  I want to get as many days on skis per year as possible. I'm a skier too.