I Take It All Back

I know that recently I have posted how I want nothing but groomers and man made snow at any western mountain I may go to.  Recently I have been on vacation in Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons.  I saw not one, not two, not three, but four western ski areas.  Big Sky, Snow King, Jackson Hole, and Grand Targhee.  Seeing the big open slopes and imagining them covered in powder makes me want to leave groomers and man made snow in the east (or even better in Vernon) when I go to the west.  Why look for the same thing in the west that I look for in the east.  I can't imagine skiing at an area that gets 400 inches of snow a year which is 8x more than Mountain Creek.  If I want a ski trip with groomers and man made snow, I've got Okemo which doesn't even require airfare to get to.  The west is about powder, not grooming.  Seeing all these areas has put me in the early planning stages of a western ski trip (just got to get my dad from partially on board to fully on board), we don't know when we are going, or where for that matter.  However, I know that I will be out west before long to experience all that it has to offer.  Choosing where to go will be one of the toughest decisions I will make, but Park City and Keystone are out, and there is a very good chance of Snowbird.

Nice man, go for it. The east can have good powder, too. No matter where you go, it is all about timing. If you aren't familiar with powder skiing, before you book a trip out west, you should get as much experience in as possible so you can learn and adapt your skiing to a different style. For those of us who grew up only skiing groomers, our first experiences with powder are generally full of fail. And fun. But mostly tiring fail.

It's perfectly fine to prefer groomers. Don't be bullied into an opinion just because a bunch of random people on the internet say one thing is better than another thing.

But, you do find, in skiing, that if you want to ski that awesome stuff that you're looking at out West, you're going to need to learn to ski pow, bumps, mank, gnar, corn, coral reef, and whatever other kind of snow you can think of. It no longer becomes a question of what you prefer. It's more of a "challenge yourself to kick some ass" kind of thing.

And you're right. The only way to get good enough to ski those lines out west is to put in some quality time skiing hardcore stuff in the east. Schralp the gnar, grasshopper, schralp the gnar.

It is fun out there, no doubt.

But don't forget that for all the glory days of skiing 1-2 feet of fresh, there are a lot of days of skiing the tracked up and firmed up mank in between. Grooming can be a good thing at times....

Woah that was quick. Does this mean the east is obsolete?

sno

Good for you for  seeing the light

If we get pow, crud, corn in the east ski it so you won't flail when you do get that powder day when are go out West.  Eastern skiers typically will fall quite a bit during their first powder experience.  

You need to narrow your stance a bit and weight both skis not equally as that really is not possible but closer to 60 / 40 or 70 / 30 instead of 90 / 10 on hard snow.  Your legs work as one unit instead of two.

Do not lean back or you will burn your quads out before lunch.  Instead you need to get the skis to rise up.  Using extension (think hopping) to do so is easier but more tiring.  It's best to learn a retraction move which is sort of the opposite of skiing on groomers.  Instead of extending at the top of the turn you suck your legs up like you are pulling up on clip in bike petals.  Then thru the turn you extend your legs so that at the bottom you have created a platform in the snow.  For the next turn you again retract your legs up off that platform as you crossover into the new turn.  It's retract then extend vs extend and then flex on groomers.

This is the gold standard powder turn which requires little energy.  It will make you a much better skier overall as you have added to your way you can move and the retraction can aid in your inside ski on groomers and in your bump skiing.

Nice. Welcome to the white room.  You will become addicted to the feeling of floating in and through the snow.  It is like nothing else in the world.

Great to hear the conversion has begun. My advice, for that first trip go for lighter snow first. You big issue will be scheduling around school. If you can get out in late Feb or early Mar your odds are pretty good. Places like Targhee & Powder mountain offer lots of terrain that offer intermediate powder skiers terrain that is not to intimidating. Powder mountain in early Mar would be my choice for the powder newbie learning to perfect those skills. Rent a ski guide/instructor for a day to show you were the untracked learning terrain is.

We too have lots of powder days in the east. But we also have a lot of people and limited terrain. A weekend powder day is usually only good for 1 run on the groomed before it's chopped. The woods you can get a few and then you need much better skills to fill out your day. So to learn pow techniques in the east is hard. It can be done but the process is slow.

Learning to ski crud, bumps, mank, yak, gak, glop, etc. are all skills you need to get to and from the goods as they get further off the well beaten path. Learn these skills and you can get several days of good skiing in from a single dump even in the east. Grab some BC gear and learn a little mountaineering and you can get a week or more.

Coach Z wrote

Instead of extending at the top of the turn you suck your legs up like you are pulling up on clip in bike petals.  Then thru the turn you extend your legs so that at the bottom you have created a platform in the snow.  For the next turn you again retract your legs up off that platform as you crossover into the new turn.  It's retract then extend vs extend and then flex on groomers.

This is the gold standard powder turn which requires little energy...

Retraction turns are fun, but IMO the new gold standard powder turn, in the age of Rockered skis, is the slarve (or even the retraction slarve if you want to get crazy). Just a little instructor aside that we can talk about in a different thread if we're bored.

Going out West does not always mean you will be skiing knee deep powder. You need to pick a good spot, a good time frame, and have good luck with the weather.

But even if you miss the knee deep powder, skiing on dry western, groomed, packed powder with no hints of hard pack/styrofoam/scraped/refrozen rain/eastern blue ice is a blissfull dream.

I plan to go in late January the season it happens.  I would need to take 4 days off from school and I would get in 4 ski days and two travel days.  I have heard to avoid March/April due to spring break crowds.  Early March should be better than late March.  I still can't decide whether to go to Utah or Colorado.  Colorado is served nonstop from Newark on United which my dad has elite status on which allows us to save on the baggage fees.  SLC is only served direct out of Newark on Delta which neither me or my dad has any miles on, so the baggage fees would cost a lot.  However, we could always get a frequent flier number.  Utah is much easier to get from the airport to the ski area.  Snowbird is the closest to SLC at only 20 minutes, however, the closest thing to Denver is Winter Park which is over an hour away.  As of now, we are leaning toward Utah.

Utah.

Real skiers ski the East

it needed to be said

Real skiers don't ski on groomed terrain, no matter where it's at...

Maximize your chances of hitting snow. January and Feb can be dry. When the snow comes it's lighter though. March is prime, the storms start to roll through and if you have sun and no snow the snow softens a bit, you have not started to go through the big melts and the re freezes. Early April at high elevation can bring wonderful conditions, you can get mega dumps and ski waist deep in the AM before the sun hits it because an hour if mid day sun will make it glop.

MikeK wrote

Real skiers don't ski on groomed terrain, no matter where it's at...

Please define groomed terrain.

Based on that definition, if you ski both groomed and ungroomed does your status or realness change based on the activity?

Do real skiers use lifts?

Harvey wrote

 

Based on that definition, if you ski both groomed and ungroomed does your status or realness change based on the activity?

 

No doubt......one could be real, unreal, real, unreal, real, unreal all in one run

How cool

Harvey wrote

MikeK wrote

Real skiers don't ski on groomed terrain, no matter where it's at...

Please define groomed terrain.

Based on that definition, if you ski both groomed and ungroomed does your status or realness change based on the activity?

Do real skiers use lifts?

I define groomed as tracks or cords made by a machine.

I ski groomed stuff but I love natural snow in natural conditions.  And I think real skiers ski both but probably prefer wild snow.

As far as lifts.  I tend to think not.  Real skiers wouldn't constrain their terrain to where such devices exist.  Of course the addicts will ski anything they can get.

I consider myself to be less of a real skier and more of a mountaineering skier. I prefer experiencing the whole mountain. I will sometimes ski lift served, usually early season when the snow cover is thin and the hiking is not so good. I will also go midweek on after a big dump and there are fewer people to compete with. A groomer with 12" of pow on top can be a lot of fun. But what I really love is hiking up a slide or trail to a hidden natural glade. I may only get a few runs in but it makes a great day.

This past season though was hard on slide skiing, the avi danger was too high until the corn came. And when the corn came I only had time for one glorious day on a very remote slide. Glade skiing was very good though.