Idea to Improve Ski Bowl Usage at Gore

With 175,000 skier visits a year it's clear that some prefer the kind of experience Gore offers.  I agree that the Ski Bowl experience harkens back to a simpler time.  I'll never forget my first ride up the Hudson Chair... I was with X and we were like WOW! we're skiing NY's first lift served mountain.

Gore will never be able to out-Stratton, Stratton. Not every mountain has to be the same.

I'm just some ski-hick who's barely skied anywhere, but there are some really well traveled people on this board who appreciate Gore. Some call it their home mountain.

Slowly but surely Gore is being homogenized. I understand why it is happening and it's probably inevitable, but something is being lost, that some of us will miss.

Killington has signs at the Skyeship Base trail that say "Do not ski this trail after 3:15 unless your car is parked at Skyeship Base".  Gore should add these to the Pipeline traverse and Peaceful Valley right at the intersection with Eagle's Nest.  Also, add them at the top of the Ski Bowl that say "Do not return to this lift unless your car is parked at the Ski Bowl base".  Action Park's winter business doesn't have signs for this which is kind of weird because they have 2 separate base areas that require some travelling to get to.  There should be signs at the top of Southern Sojourn that say "Do not ski this trail within 30 minutes of closing time unless your car is parked at South Base.  There should also be signs at the bottom of the Sojourn Lift that say "Do not board this lift within 30 minutes of closing time unless your car is parked at Vernon Base.  I am sure that people are very pissed off at the end of the day if they end up at the wrong base.  Killington being more service oriented than Gore or Action Park's winter business actually has employees ask everyone if they know where they need to get back to and then directs them there.  At the end of the day on the Skyeship Gondola when the cabins arrived at Mid Station, they asked where everyone was parked and if they knew how to get there.  If people said that they didn't, they'd tell them which trails to ski to get to their base area.  Not saying that Gore's employees would never do this at all, but at Killington, they did it without people needing to ask.

I thought I read somewhere in this thread that Gore only had one base area

Gore has 2 base areas, but only one is consistently open, so it seems like there is only one.

Harvey wrote

With 175,000 skier visits a year it's clear that some prefer the kind of experience Gore offers.  I agree that the Ski Bowl experience harkens back to a simpler time.  I'll never forget my first ride up the Hudson Chair... I was with X and we were like WOW! we're skiing NY's first lift served mountain.

Gore will never be able to out-Stratton, Stratton. Not every mountain has to be the same.

I'm just some ski-hick who's barely skied anywhere, but there are some really well traveled people on this board who appreciate Gore. Some call it their home mountain.

Slowly but surely Gore is being homogenized. I understand why it is happening and it's probably inevitable, but something is being lost, that some of us will miss.

That last one threw me. What do you mean by Gore is being homogenized?

Pretty much normal loco comments. Gore just doesn't seem like his kind of place.  When you compare everything to the skiing perfection that is Mt Creek you can see why Gore can't measure up.

I really like the snow bowl.  It's the only place I park when I do get down to Gore.  Someday I hope to get there when the glades are in play.

My only beef is the difficulty getting back but I think that new bark eater trail will help with that.  Oh and that crazy sharp left turn onto that bridge.  What were they thinking when they put that bridge in?  How often does patrol have to fish someone out of the creek bed?

Harvey wrote

I was thinking about the expansion that resulted in the Straightbrook pod.  I think it was third or fourth:

1) East Side
2) North Side
3) Straightbrook
4) Darkside

...or maybe it was the other way around with Dark Side and Straightbrook reversed.

Anyway you MIGHT say it was nuts to put in Straightbrook and Darkside first. All that fodder for the flat spot whiners on Cloud.  Topridge would have made more sense.  But there was political will to develop the SUMMIT of Gore. Go to the top!

Harv,

It was the other way around, Summit Double '66, Straightbrook Double w/Red Gondi '67.  

Here in the People's Republic of the State of New York, never mention Politics and Skiing in the same thought process. That is, unless you're canonizing Averill Harriman for WF, Belle and Gore.  Ooops, this could become A Perfect S@#* Show Storm, right here on NYSB.

All the best, ski you on the hill.

My advice, STAY AWAY and leave the Ski Bowl for me......that way I can show up on Saturday morning and catch all that fresh POW on the 46er, get into the glades and enjoy the Yurt with the mice and other bearded losers and junkies while everyone else freezes their behinds off on hardpack and ice up on the rest of the mountain.....lines...crowds....oh....and I forgot....leave that parking space for me so I only have to walk 100 feet to plunk my boots on.....and ramble back at the end of the day after having a couple of beers with my junkie friends on the Yurt Deck......so yeah.....stay away....please....because that Ski Bowl...its just not worth it.

Spongeworthy wrote

That last one threw me. What do you mean by Gore is being homogenized?

Gore get's more like other mountains every year. Don't get me wrong, most of it is necessary, much of it is good.

Before the AE1 was put in there was a really slow (double?) on that line that was life threatening on a cold and windy day. The lifties gave you a blanket.  I love that story, but the AE1 was a better solution - get people through that run more quickly, reliably, safely.

Maybe not as good to some... straightening out Lower Steilhang. They want to groom it. Why?  You have 102 trails and two are really unique: Lower Stielhang and Upper Darby. They can't be groomed. Can't we have two old school trails?  Why does Lower Steilhang have to be a clone of Hullabaloo?  I don't have much experience at other ski areas but those who do... where is there another trail like LS?  

Never WIDEN anything. Snowmaking kills trees fast enough. I'd like to see them try to regen the saddle. Impossible? Maybe.  Why does the top of Topridge/Uncas have to be so wide?

I'm glad I had a chance to ski Mittersill before they paved it. It was AWESOME. And we skied in on extremely thin cover.  It was so cool because it was what freeheeln described. Skiers who really wanted to be together who valued the same thing... no HSQ... we did one lap, maybe 1500 or 2000 vert (?) and it took us 2 or 3 hours round trip.  That and skiing the minefield on Upper/Middle Hard are the things I remember most from my NH roadtrip.

Sorry I've been soapboxin big time the last couple days.

64ER wrote

Harvey wrote

I was thinking about the expansion that resulted in the Straightbrook pod.  I think it was third or fourth:

1) East Side
2) North Side
3) Straightbrook
4) Darkside

...or maybe it was the other way around with Dark Side and Straightbrook reversed.

Anyway you MIGHT say it was nuts to put in Straightbrook and Darkside first. All that fodder for the flat spot whiners on Cloud.  Topridge would have made more sense.  But there was political will to develop the SUMMIT of Gore. Go to the top!

Harv,

It was the other way around, Summit Double '66, Straightbrook Double w/Red Gondi '67.  

Here in the People's Republic of the State of New York, never mention Politics and Skiing in the same thought process. That is, unless you're canonizing Averill Harriman for WF, Belle and Gore.  Ooops, this could become A Perfect S@#* Show Storm, right here on NYSB.

All the best, ski you on the hill.

Thanks for the clarification I never knew that. How did you get to the Summit Chair?

With regard to the politics you've warned me about that before.  I get tired of bitting my tongue.  PM me if I'm missing something top secret or blowing it in a big way.

Truth: I do think Harriman was a cool guy, from what I've read, and written.

Harvey wrote

With 175,000 skier visits a year it's clear that some prefer the kind of experience Gore offers.  I agree that the Ski Bowl experience harkens back to a simpler time...

Slowly but surely Gore is being homogenized. I understand why it is happening and it's probably inevitable, but something is being lost, that some of us will miss.

Harvey - I was reading Outside Magazine today and thought of you when I read this and it really struck a cord with me as well:

"I'm drawn to the places where skiing blossoms in the unlikeliest of snowbanks - the random spots that the trampling herd doesn't book for President's Day weekend. Most ski resorts today do not agree with me. They are plasticky, beige, interchangeable. Corporate. When you're there, a hand is always in your pocket. Last winter, as I made calls to northern B.C., two of skiing's gorillas Vail Resorts and Powdr Corp., were bloodying each other over who would control the dirt beneath Utah's Park City Mountain Resort, with the people and economy of Park City held hostage. Reading about such things, I find myself longing for what I've never really known: Aspen before Learjets. Jackson Hole before Texas oil money." - Christopher Solomon from the Soul of Skiing in the Great White North. Outside Magazine November 2014 (It's not online yet or I would have linked)

Sno- As much as I bust your chops, you have to realize something. You have MINIMAL real world experience when it comes to skiing. Mountain Creek is probably a nice hill to have in your area, and it certainly beats not skiing, but skiing there 147 times per season is certainly not going to give you any wisdom or expertise on how the Ski Bowl should be run or what would make Gore "better". I applaud your passion, but you clearly have no clue...yet.

MikePom wrote

My advice, STAY AWAY and leave the Ski Bowl for me......that way I can show up on Saturday morning and catch all that fresh POW on the 46er, get into the glades and enjoy the Yurt with the mice and other bearded losers and junkies while everyone else freezes their behinds off on hardpack and ice up on the rest of the mountain.....lines...crowds....oh....and I forgot....leave that parking space for me so I only have to walk 100 feet to plunk my boots on.....and ramble back at the end of the day after having a couple of beers with my junkie friends on the Yurt Deck......so yeah.....stay away....please....because that Ski Bowl...its just not worth it.

I don't ski lower steilhang or upper darby because I think they are above my ability. But I still think they should remain as is. They help make gore more unique. And I don't think adding better lifts or snowmaking takes away from Gore's character. North side, darkside and ski bowl in my opinion are very different from the freeway sized trails at Stratton and Okemo.

tom

TomCat wrote

I don't ski lower steilhang or upper darby because I think they are above my ability. But I still think they should remain as is. They help make gore more unique. And I don't think adding better lifts or snowmaking takes away from Gore's character. North side, darkside and ski bowl in my opinion are very different from the freeway sized trails at Stratton and Okemo.

tom

Half the point of skiing Lower Steilhang or Upper Darby is the idea that they COULD knock you on your ass at any time. That's the fun of it.

YUKON CORNELIUS wrote

Half the point of skiing Lower Steilhang or Upper Darby is the idea that they COULD knock you on your ass at any time. That's the fun of it.

My 10 yr old son loves to lure his mom down LS so he can hear the bad language when she gets to the headwall.  We will miss that.

Harvey wrote

Gore get's more like other mountains every year. Don't get me wrong, most of it is necessary, much of it is good.

Before the AE1 was put in there was a really slow (double?) on that line that was life threatening on a cold and windy day. The lifties gave you a blanket.  I love that story, but the AE1 was a better solution - get people through that run more quickly, reliably, safely.

I see the AE1 not as an example of homogenization but one of innovation.  Remember that it was one of the first (if not the very first) high speed lifts in North America.  Gore wasn't following, they were leading with AE1.

You know Jeff, you're kind of on to something with that. But the AE1 was totally archaic, a prototype from another era. It had to have been designed awhile before it went in.

If you ever went up Hunter's first A-lift hs quad which was installed around 86 and was retired a couple years ago, even that was kind of like comparing a 50's beetle to a 90s wrx. At least on the outside.

My recollection of upper Darby is that you hug the tree on your right half way down the head wall and the rest is good and with lower Stielhang was that you hug the tree on the left at the top of the head wall and all is good. These two trails were not that hard if you took them slow, but they were also very short. I also seem to recall that the real attraction was not on these trails but what these trails provided access too.

snoloco wrote

x10003q wrote

snoloco wrote

All I'm saying is that it needs to be open consistently on a full time basis.  None of this "oh it will open when mother nature gives us the goods" nonsense.  It would be nice to have every lift a high speed, but it obviously isn't practical due to that small money thing.  No ski area in the east should need anything from nature to open an entire section of a mountain.  To me, sufficient snowmaking capacity means having the ability to open every section of the mountain by 12/26 in all but the worst Decembers with no natural snow at all.  No vacationer wants to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars and find out that the mountain they went to is half open.  I can remember the Ski Bowl's opening days for every season since it first opened.

10-11:  January 28 (first opening, I believe due to a snowstorm)
11-12:  3/3 (only open 2 days entire season)
12-13:  12/28 (big snowstorm)
13-14:  2/8 (only opening on snowmaking I can think of)

None of these days are acceptable opening dates for a large chunk of the mountain.  Look at this and tell me that they don't need to upgrade snowmaking over there.

So confident yet so clueless. Ski areas are BUSINESSES. Businesses exist to make money. Take an economics class.

I highlighted your most humorous statement.

What's so funny about having capacity to open all sections of the mountain by one of the busiest times of the year?  I  would book a vacation at a mountain that I knew could do that.  I sure would not book a vacation that time of year at a mountain that I knew had a hard time doing that.  Ever skied a mountain that wasn't fully open by Christmas.  I have done it at Mountain Creek and trust me, it is a mess.  I mean that there are 20-25 minute waits on the major lifts that are open.  Same thing has happened at Windham when they didn't have East Peak open for Christmas.  That was a major liftline disaster as well.

Until ski areas can control the local weather, Xmas to New Years vacation skiing will continue to be what it is and will always be - a crap shoot.

x10003q wrote

snoloco wrote

x10003q wrote

snoloco wrote

All I'm saying is that it needs to be open consistently on a full time basis.  None of this "oh it will open when mother nature gives us the goods" nonsense.  It would be nice to have every lift a high speed, but it obviously isn't practical due to that small money thing.  No ski area in the east should need anything from nature to open an entire section of a mountain.  To me, sufficient snowmaking capacity means having the ability to open every section of the mountain by 12/26 in all but the worst Decembers with no natural snow at all.  No vacationer wants to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars and find out that the mountain they went to is half open.  I can remember the Ski Bowl's opening days for every season since it first opened.

10-11:  January 28 (first opening, I believe due to a snowstorm)
11-12:  3/3 (only open 2 days entire season)
12-13:  12/28 (big snowstorm)
13-14:  2/8 (only opening on snowmaking I can think of)

None of these days are acceptable opening dates for a large chunk of the mountain.  Look at this and tell me that they don't need to upgrade snowmaking over there.

So confident yet so clueless. Ski areas are BUSINESSES. Businesses exist to make money. Take an economics class.

I highlighted your most humorous statement.

What's so funny about having capacity to open all sections of the mountain by one of the busiest times of the year?  I  would book a vacation at a mountain that I knew could do that.  I sure would not book a vacation that time of year at a mountain that I knew had a hard time doing that.  Ever skied a mountain that wasn't fully open by Christmas.  I have done it at Mountain Creek and trust me, it is a mess.  I mean that there are 20-25 minute waits on the major lifts that are open.  Same thing has happened at Windham when they didn't have East Peak open for Christmas.  That was a major liftline disaster as well.

Until ski areas can control the local weather, Xmas to New Years vacation skiing will continue to be what it is and will always be - a crap shoot.

Hunter gets most of their trails open for Christmas every year.  Windham almost always gets East Peak open in time.  The Vermont mountains can do it.  Why is it so impossible for Whiteface or Gore.