Ikon Pass

snoloco wrote

I just read the comments on the announcement FB post.  Looks like everyone who doesn't live in Colorado is really really angry.

I can understand disappointed or bummed, but angry?  I am angry that you are not selling a product I want to buy?  

What are we communists?

Because the max pass was great for the east and this was marketed as a "better" replacement in reality sucks for the majority of the skiing public in the east.  They raised the price and cut the number of mountains and days and you're wondering why people aren't happy.

The only reasons I'll be getting it is because Tremblant is unlimited and Sugarbush just joined and I really want to get there as it's the only major ski area in Vermont I haven't been to.

Harvey wrote

snoloco wrote

I just read the comments on the announcement FB post.  Looks like everyone who doesn't live in Colorado is really really angry.

I can understand disappointed or bummed, but angry?  I am angry that you are not selling a product I want to buy?  

What are we communists?

I feel ashamed- deeply ashamed

snoloco wrote

Because the max pass was great for the east and this was marketed as a "better" replacement in reality sucks for the majority of the skiing public in the east.  They raised the price and cut the number of mountains and days and you're wondering why people aren't happy.

Read my post.  "aren't happy" = "disappointed or bummed."

Something people couldn't even imagine two years ago is now gone and people are "angry."

I'm angry that my Gore pass doesn't include Bohemia and Chamonix.

Whatever.  If not enough people like it, it will either go away or change.  Capitalism.

The way I see it there is huge downward pressure on lift ticket prices. It remains to be seen if it will be good or bad for the industry.

Seems to me that this is targeted and very specific citys of Denver, Bay Area Cali, LA
Montreal and Toronto.  If you live there this is an awesomely great deal.  It’s better than Max pass for everyone else while it has less total areas quite a few offer unlimited skiing.  A intermediate East coaster could be pretty darn happy with this.

Very interesting that Aspen left itself off the unlimited pass offering.  An Aspen pass must cost much more.

It’s probably better than Epic but it’s not the game changer it could be if it had unlimited Killington, Sunday river sugar loaf on it.  

What will be Orda’s response to this?  Could really hurt the Montreal area pass sales.

Not sure how you could interpret this as better than the max pass for East coast skiers.  Only Stratton is unlimited and only if you buy the 900 dollar version.  And if you live in either Boston or NYC every single destination requires an overnight trip.

I agree on your other points.

It’s about the same as a Rocky Mountain super pass for Denver skiers except the it includes Aspen, which is huge. What did the RMSP cost?  
This year I had max pass and a sugarbush boomer pass. Next year it will be an ORDA senior pass and probably an Ikon pass. That would be a little more money but I’ll have unlimited Gore days which I like. I’m gonna lobby my ski buddies to get Ikon.

This is actually way better than I expected, but still not as good as Mac pass for me.


mm

snoloco wrote

Not sure how you could interpret this as better than the max pass for East coast skiers.  Only Stratton is unlimited and only if you buy the 900 dollar version.  And if you live in either Boston or NYC every single destination requires an overnight trip.

Which is the exact point of this pass. It is meant to offer folks that live nearby to east coast airports a few tickets to local mountains and a big incentive to take multiple trips out west.

This is especially good for Metro Boston skiers that enjoy resort skiing. Unlimited Stratton, 7 days each at K and Bush, 7 days split up between River/Loaf/Loon. And at least one big trip out west, maybe two or three. That is a pretty darn full season. Don't ski that many days? Just get the base, instead. K, Bush, River, Loon, and Stratton are all 2-3 hours from Boston, easy day tripping or weekend warrior overnights.

For NYC/EWR area, definitely not as good unless you plan to do a lot of flying.  

I wish there was a slightly lower tier option with blackouts or the Base didn't have blackouts. Hard for me to justify the base price with blackouts. And it is a touch too expensive for just early/late season options at River and K along with cheap tickets for a trip. I feel like I could make it work better other ways and I don't think the pricing works out very well if you don't take a trip out west. Too early to commit to that.

So I am a hard pass. But I can understand their target market. It isn't hard core enthusiasts, the target market are well to do metro skiers that mostly overnight at resorts and definitely plan to fly to ski at least once.

I think I’m probably going to pass unless my travel friends all get Ikon.

I sometimes do ski club trips, and you don’t get much value for your pass there. I considered a club trip to Crested Butte, and they only reduced it by $150 for my max pass, plus they wanted full window rate for a sixth day.

 Unless my friends and family commit to two western trips to Ikon locations, I’m out.

mm

I found out some more info on why some resorts aren't included that many thought should've been.  Alterra has to invite all the partner resorts to join.  If they don't want someone to join they block them.  Okemo was one of the noteworthy mountains that was not included.  Alterra didn't want them because they'd compete with Stratton.

Also, there is noticeable favoritism towards the mountains that compete directly with Vail owned resorts.  Squaw Valley is near the Lake Tahoe Vail Resorts and is unlimited on both passes.  Yet Mammoth doesn't compete directly with Vail and is only unlimited on the more expensive pass.  Mammoth's pass used to be the Cali4nia pass, and in order to get unlimited access to their home mountain, they have to pay about twice as much.

In the east, Stratton is only unlimited with the more expensive version.  Yet it's a far inferior mountain to any of the Ikonic western resorts.  Why?  Because it doesn't compete with any Vail resorts and they think they can get an extra 300 dollars from Stratton skiers since they can't defect to Vail like out west.

Killington passholders are all very angry that there's no add on rate and they aren't unlimited even on the more expensive version while Copper and Eldora, other Powdr mountains are.  So while a Copper Mountain skier can pay 600 dollars and get all the Ikon Pass access plus skiing at their home mountain, a Killington skier has to pay 900 dollars for the Killingon/Pico pass, and then pay another 600 dollars or 900 dollars for the Ikon Pass.  Totally unaffordable for a typical skiing family.  Can you see why people are so outraged about this?  Even with the cheaper Ikon Pass variant, you have to pay 2.5 times as much as a Copper or Eldora skier would pay for the same product.

Basically, Alterra wants the skiers in less competitive markets to subsidize the pass prices in the competitive markets.  My guess is the whole thing will go bust unless they make some major changes.  It's too complex and there's such a huge difference between the haves and the have-nots (see Killington example above).  Skiers aren't dumb and those in the "giving markets" are not going to pay them to subsidize the artificially low prices to try and compete with Vail.

I happen to go to college in an area where it makes sense to get the cheaper version for 480 on the student rate, but I'm in the minority since there's not many people that live in that geographic "sweet spot".

Sno - I haven't looked at the details on this pass, but I would suspect that where there is more competition the pass price will be higher.

So in the east, where there is denser population and more crowded resorts, the pricing will tilt toward the higher end (which I think based on waht I read about the add-on costs is what is happening).

In the West, where there is more price competition and less dense population and less crowded resorts, lower prices.

Supply / Demand.

Outraged?

That seems a little extreme.

OMG! Lil ol SnoreLoco isn't getting what he wants and is angry ---- boo-hoo

RA:  A Killington skier has to pay 2.5x more than a Copper or Eldora skier (owned by the same company) for the same product.  That is why people are outraged.

Billy:  I get what you're saying but Alterra wants to have this big multi resort pass, yet charge the full market rate for passes in different locations even when it's the same product everywhere.   You can't have your cake and eat it too.

They screwed the pooch on this one.  Their greed left a big opportunity for Vail to swoop in and offer a better deal and steal a whole bunch of customers.

snoloco wrote

RA:  A Killington skier has to pay 2.5x more than a Copper or Eldora skier (owned by the same company) for the same product.  That is why people are outraged.

It's not the same Product, though. The Killington skier is buying an October-May season at the biggest mountain in VT, the best facilities in the East, the most snowmaking and grooming in the east, the only World Cup in the east, plus access to the smaller mountain next door that, were it in Warrensburg with its snowfall, slopeside lodging & vibe, would take almost half of Gore's clientele.

The Copper skier isn't even buying the 2nd best mountain in the county. The Eldora skier is locking themselves into skiing one of the weakest mountains in CO (although the days at Steamboat are a plus).

A little bit of a thread drift but I want to agree with your point about Pico. Drop it pretty much anywhere in NY and it would be a standout. But right next to Killington, it's viewed as some sort of quaint little throwback locals hill.

Killington has spent the last 20 years being run into the ground to fund western investment.  First Otten did it to build The Canyons, and now Powdr is doing to buy Eldora, and build multiple lifts there, at Copper, and Mount Bachelor.  Killington hasn't seen a lift in 10 years.  They just might do South Ridge this year but I could name at least two other urgent lift projects that have to be done ASAP that won't ever be done.

To ask Killington skiers to spend thousands more on season passes while the western resorts get all the new lifts is a complete disgrace.  Clearly Killington makes lots of money because Vail and Alterra offered to buy it and Powdr wouldn't sell.  They need it to fund Cooper's artificially low pass prices and big capital and drunken sailor capital sending out there.

Disgrace? Man you’re so extreme.

Sno needs a little bit of real deal suffering in his life to get things in perspective.

Calm Down, bro. Killington is fine just the way it is

raisingarizona wrote

Disgrace? Man you’re so extreme.

Sno needs a little bit of real deal suffering in his life to get things in perspective.

Yup