Lift Tickets and the Cost of Skiing

In a thread on Alpine Zone a couple forum members were pushing the idea that if Plattekill would lower ticket prices they'd increase revenue.  One suggestion was to lower the day ticket by $9 and another to lower the season pass price by $150.

For us the cost of gas has a much more dramatic impact on our costs vs the cost of tickets.  I wouldn't be surprised if we spend less on skiing this year vs last year.

I'm not intending this thread to be about Plattekill's pricing. I'm wondering how much ticket pricing affects where and how much you ski.

For me, it's not only price but proximity. I used to buy the ISKINY gold pass, but it's overpriced this year.

Where: definitely.
When: not really.

I ski whenever I physically can.

@ Harv, wondering if you could share the link to the alpine zone thread.  I'd like to see their logic.   Lots of people talk about reducing prices, but would the mountain be able to offer the same level of amenities that people expect.

Unfortunately, I don't ski enough at any one place to justify buying a season pass.  Trail pass fees for xc are lower than alpine for sure, but I've noticed the price increases over the last 10 years.  Especially now that I have to pay for my daughter.

Ticket pricing doesn't affect how much I ski; these days, it's more family and work commitments.  Gas prices don't effect how much I ski, but the traveling from north NJ wore me down last winter.  Back in the day there were years when I figured I drove 10,000+ miles in a winter for skiing.  Not any more.

For the pass few years my little area here, Kissing Bridge has been doing what I think is a brilliant move I wish other areas would do.  In celebration of their 50th season they ran a one day sale at the end of the year party in March for the following season.  Kids lessons, 10 packs and seasons were all put on deep discount.  Seasons passes were about 40%+ off regular rates and 20%+ off of the preseason discounted rate.  The demand was so high it crashed the phone and computer system.
The rumor was that they covered the mountain operating costs for the next season on that day so many people bought passes (and other products)  
They have been doing it now for the past several years and I think it's a good idea as a business.  They have cash in hand for the summer improvements, and good budget projections for the next year.  We all know how much word of mouth and asking for advice is involved in skiing (this site exhibit number one) why not get as many people over to seasons as you can.  They also throw in a coupon book with pass holders for discounted ticket, start a friend skiing discount, food discounts at the resort, all ways to generate more income.
I imagine a small regional resort like Plattekill would greatly benefit from a promotion like this.  They seem like very similar areas (besides, of course, the vertical)  I'm fairly sure they have similar regional competition--the behemoth Holiday Valley is 30 minutes away from KB--and season pass prices also seem to be priced about the same.  Regular priced season pass at KB is $695--one day sale was $370.   WHAT!? that's correct!--why wouldn't you buy a season pass at those prices!
You should get the powers to be to start talking to KB for next season.  

Peter .. the AZ thread is 22 pages and I linked the spot (roughly) where the price discussion starts above in the original post.  I can see why ticket price would be less of an issue for a nordic guy and tix are less and gas, lodging etc remain the same.

Everyone wants lower prices. But they also want good conditions, and that costs money. Hickory is cheap, but they haven't been open much the last few years.

Before I had a ski house it was the total cost of a trip that determined where I would go. Lift tickets (family of 4) were a major component along with lodging. I went to belleayre every year for Christmas week mainly because of lift tickets - they had free kids with a paying adult back in the day. I wanted to try plattekill but free tickets at belleayre was too much to overcome.

It does seem that the mountains with the highest prices are doing well, so I guess for many the cost is not such a big deal.

Tom

Gorefarmhouse wrote

For the pass few years my little area here, Kissing Bridge has been doing what I think is a brilliant move I wish other areas would do.  In celebration of their 50th season they ran a one day sale at the end of the year party in March for the following season.  Kids lessons, 10 packs and seasons were all put on deep discount.  Seasons passes were about 40%+ off regular rates and 20%+ off of the preseason discounted rate.  The demand was so high it crashed the phone and computer system.
The rumor was that they covered the mountain operating costs for the next season on that day so many people bought passes (and other products)  
They have been doing it now for the past several years and I think it's a good idea as a business.  They have cash in hand for the summer improvements, and good budget projections for the next year.  We all know how much word of mouth and asking for advice is involved in skiing (this site exhibit number one) why not get as many people over to seasons as you can.  They also throw in a coupon book with pass holders for discounted ticket, start a friend skiing discount, food discounts at the resort, all ways to generate more income.
I imagine a small regional resort like Plattekill would greatly benefit from a promotion like this.  They seem like very similar areas (besides, of course, the vertical)  I'm fairly sure they have similar regional competition--the behemoth Holiday Valley is 30 minutes away from KB--and season pass prices also seem to be priced about the same.  Regular priced season pass at KB is $695--one day sale was $370.   WHAT!? that's correct!--why wouldn't you buy a season pass at those prices!
You should get the powers to be to start talking to KB for next season.

Almost every ski area offers discounts on season passes in the spring. Trying to compare what may work at one area to another area is almost impossible. Some ski areas might use complex financial calculations while others may go with a feeling about where they should set pricing. It is a fine line to walk. Look at the Magic thread.

We all like to pay as little as possible, but ski areas exist to make money.

NO NO NO you're missing it
I thought someone would think this.

Yes, of course, they offer discounted spring rates--just like everyone else.  No different that anywhere else. I've been skiing for 43 years, this I know.

A few years back (5 maAAYbee, no more) then ran an amazing promotion by hugely undercutting their already discounted tickets.  For one day.  ONE DAY ONLY.  It was a gimmick in celebration of their 50th season.

This was an ADDITIONAL 20%+ off of the discounted rates ONE DAY ONLY.  That made it $300 for a seasons pass!  It was a WILDLY successful gimmick!

Of course they LOST money with the people that were going to buy a seasons pass anyways, but the MASSIVE increase in sales volume of new passes (and all of the other children's programs, etc., etc.) made it worth the small loss on the front end.  So much so that it is now a tradition--well at least a four or five year one.  CLEARLY it is worth it to undercut themselves.  They now do it every year and are in the middle of upgrading their snowmaking infrastructure and investing hugely in their terrain parks

The whole point here is that this is empirical evidence to the Plattekill cheaper tickers equals more skiers argument.  True, real life evidence.

I hate pass prices in the NE! compare with the epic pass: Unlimited access to Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Park City, Canyons, Heavenly, Northstar, Kirkwood, Afton Alps, Mt. Brighton, and Arapahoe Basin for $789 and even cheaper during the summer. If you only ride tahoe, the tahoe local pass is around $500..... Most mountains around here are around $1000 - $1500 for a season pass... gimme a break!

skunkape wrote

I hate pass prices in the NE! compare with the epic pass: Unlimited access to Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Park City, Canyons, Heavenly, Northstar, Kirkwood, Afton Alps, Mt. Brighton, and Arapahoe Basin for $789 and even cheaper during the summer. If you only ride tahoe, the tahoe local pass is around $500..... Most mountains around here are around $1000 - $1500 for a season pass... gimme a break!

This, it was cost effective for me to purchase an A-basin season pass for this season last Spring. I've already got 5 days on it last Spring, I will ski 1, or 2 days on it this Winter, and possibly return in the Spring this year. The icing on the cake is the pass includes 3 tickets to Taos, a $240 perk. The cost of the pass? $279, $120 less than my Greek Peak pass!

skunkape wrote

I hate pass prices in the NE! compare with the epic pass: Unlimited access to Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Park City, Canyons, Heavenly, Northstar, Kirkwood, Afton Alps, Mt. Brighton, and Arapahoe Basin for $789 and even cheaper during the summer. If you only ride tahoe, the tahoe local pass is around $500..... Most mountains around here are around $1000 - $1500 for a season pass... gimme a break!

This is why I am going to do most, if not all, of my skiing out in Colorado this season (my first in retirement). The Epic local pass I bought is about 600 bucks, and, an even better deal is the Colorado Super Pass, which, at about 425 bucks, gets me Copper, Winter Park, six days at Steamboat (which is an impossible place to find discounts for the 100 dollar a day window price), and three days at Crested Butte. Unreal. That's no restrictions, btw. Add to that a 375 dollar Mountain Collective pass with three free days at Jackson Hole and cheap skiing at the Aspen mountains, and, for about 1400 dollars, which is the price of a season pass at Killington, (and lord knows how much a pass is at Stowe. I don't want to know) I have an enormous amount of skiing out there.  

Harvey wrote

In a thread on Alpine Zone a couple forum members were pushing the idea that if Plattekill would lower ticket prices they'd increase revenue.  One suggestion was to lower the day ticket by $9 and another to lower the season pass price by $150.

 

9 bucks??? Who the hell is worried about 9 bucks --- some people have too much time on their hands

Everybody does the math differently. For me the cost of a lift ticket doesn't factor in where I ski.  I have this feeling that lift tickets matter to people because they are "obvious."  You can see it right in front of you.

With gas, while I always try to fill up in NJ (cheap!) if I can, I wouldn't bag a powder day at Plattekill or Gore because gas was going to cost me $9 more.

Benny Profane wrote

skunkape wrote

I hate pass prices in the NE! compare with the epic pass: Unlimited access to Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Park City, Canyons, Heavenly, Northstar, Kirkwood, Afton Alps, Mt. Brighton, and Arapahoe Basin for $789 and even cheaper during the summer. If you only ride tahoe, the tahoe local pass is around $500..... Most mountains around here are around $1000 - $1500 for a season pass... gimme a break!

This is why I am going to do most, if not all, of my skiing out in Colorado this season (my first in retirement). The Epic local pass I bought is about 600 bucks, and, an even better deal is the Colorado Super Pass, which, at about 425 bucks, gets me Copper, Winter Park, six days at Steamboat (which is an impossible place to find discounts for the 100 dollar a day window price), and three days at Crested Butte. Unreal. That's no restrictions, btw. Add to that a 375 dollar Mountain Collective pass with three free days at Jackson Hole and cheap skiing at the Aspen mountains, and, for about 1400 dollars, which is the price of a season pass at Killington, (and lord knows how much a pass is at Stowe. I don't want to know) I have an enormous amount of skiing out there.

The two words central to this discussion are "snowmaking" and "retirement."

For sure, but, they still make a little in Colorado to start the season.

Beaver Creek sure looked good for early December on the TV this weekend as they showed the Birds of Prey racing. Should be a good season. I hope.

There is a short article in this months Powder Magazine on the high price of day passes, kind of fits in this thread.

Also agree w Skunk, E coast season pass prices are ridiculous, especially WF, compared w many of the multi area passes offered out west. And the ones out west generally give you many perks, I really like the ones that allow lowered tier pass holders to ski on blackout days for a discount, anyone at WF listening?  

endoftheline wrote

There is a short article in this months Powder Magazine on the high price of day passes, kind of fits in this thread.

Also agree w Skunk, E coast season pass prices are ridiculous, especially WF, compared w many of the multi area passes offered out west. And the ones out west generally give you many perks, I really like the ones that allow lowered tier pass holders to ski on blackout days for a discount, anyone at WF listening?

Many people like to make this west coast vs. east coast pass pricing comparison.  My question is, how is this even relevant??? If you live/ski on the west coast then obviously you'll buy a pass over there and pay the going rate, if you live/ski on the east coast then you'll get a pass over here and pay the going rate. But comparing  the 2 is like apples and oranges, no??

endoftheline wrote

There is a short article in this months Powder Magazine on the high price of day passes, kind of fits in this thread.

Also agree w Skunk, E coast season pass prices are ridiculous, especially WF, compared w many of the multi area passes offered out west. And the ones out west generally give you many perks, I really like the ones that allow lowered tier pass holders to ski on blackout days for a discount, anyone at WF listening?

You could have bought a WF only non holiday (including weekends) season pass for $459. The pass was only available until  April 25, 2014. That seems like a deal for a pass at WF.

Ski Ltd used to offer cheap east coast season passes. Those areas suffered. Maybe if east coast areas could just spin lifts and mostly ignore snowmaking the season passes would be as cheaper.

While the Epic pass set up is a screaming deal, the prices in Utah for the other areas are pretty stiff.
http://www.skiutah.com/passes/resort-season-passes

Cornhead wrote

skunkape wrote

I hate pass prices in the NE! compare with the epic pass: Unlimited access to Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Park City, Canyons, Heavenly, Northstar, Kirkwood, Afton Alps, Mt. Brighton, and Arapahoe Basin for $789 and even cheaper during the summer. If you only ride tahoe, the tahoe local pass is around $500..... Most mountains around here are around $1000 - $1500 for a season pass... gimme a break!

This, it was cost effective for me to purchase an A-basin season pass for this season last Spring. I've already got 5 days on it last Spring, I will ski 1, or 2 days on it this Winter, and possibly return in the Spring this year. The icing on the cake is the pass includes 3 tickets to Taos, a $240 perk. The cost of the pass? $279, $120 less than my Greek Peak pass!

Yeah.  The passes back East have a lot more operating cost built in to the price.  When I lived in PA, I had a pass at Elk and Montage.  Both were in the $600 to $750 range... even when purchased early.  This past year, the price went up at Mission, but it was still only $400 when purchased in April.  Tickets is WA state are pretty cheap in general. Less snowmaking overhead...At Mission full day is only $55.  Full day at Stevens is $64.  You can also buy a flexible 4 hour ticket for $59.

Last year, the exchange rate was very favorable, so we planned all of our trips to BC.  This is year the exchange rate is a bit better, so we will probably do the same.  We also have a small RV, and typically look for areas that have liberal parking lot policies.  Sleeping in the parking lot helps cut down on costs, and makes a shorter trip to the lifts when there is fresh snow.  

You think the whiteface pass is is expensive?  You get three mountains for 700 bucks.  What the heck do you want?