Lift Tickets and the Cost of Skiing

TomCat wrote

A collective pass would be nice. But even a few days real cheap at another mountain or two would help lock people in. Suppose your gore pass was good for five days at Stratton at $25 each. ( reciporical privilege for Stratton holders) the mountains wouldn't lose any money - same pass revenue, plus some extra when other pass holders visit.

I think the concept of multi-mountain partnerships has a lot of potential.  I wrote a blog post a few months back on the idea of an Adirondack Alliance:
Season passes: How about an Adirondack Alliance?
I'd be curious to hear anyone's thoughts on the idea.  Here's the basic concept (excerpted from the link above):  Buy an unrestricted season pass to any ski area in the Alliance, and get two free days at each of the other ski areas. Ideally an Adirondack Alliance would include all of the ski areas in and around the Adirondack Park. Besides Gore and Whiteface that would include Titus, West, Willard, McCauley, Oak, Royal, Snow Ridge.
The idea here isn't to compete directly against Vail's Epic pass, but rather to add value to the season pass products that small regional ski areas like West, Willard, Titus etc offer to their customers.
Any thoughts?

skimore wrote

snoloco wrote

 but it adds a lot of weight to our bags and slows down departure in the morning.

Are putting a whole turkey in there?

Hahaha! That's what I was wondering. Me, I stuff a sandwich in my coat and eat it on the lift. I rarely go inside.

Lots of people do the lodge thing though. Nuttin wrong with that. Hot food is good when skiing.

Jeff, that's a great idea. I think it would help get people out to hills they normally wouldn't go to and thus maybe increase their business. Maybe even help season pass sales at the original Mtn. I hardly ever go anywhere I don't have a pass to. When I have an Orda only pass, I RARELY went to West even though it's only 2 miles from my house. With the ISKINY pass, I went to West quite often. Only have a few hours....over to West ! Wicked cold day, over to west for a few. Loved it.

What would WF gain from participating?  

Most of these add ons are  happening between other like sized resorts in other areas such as Plattys I think has a recip with Magic.  It's probably the only way for these smaller areas to compete in the Epic ski biz except for selling out or shutting the doors

Coach Z wrote

What would WF gain from participating?  

A couple things:
 - Ancillary revenue from selling burgers & fries, lessons & rentals.  That's not going to add up to a lot of revenue, but at the same time there's virtually no cost associated with the additional skier visits.
 - Exposure to future passholders.  Today's passholders at Willard and West are future potential passholders at Gore and WF. Better that we (NY) expose skiers from these feeder hills to Gore/WF than lose them to Killington/ Stratton.
 - Enhancement to Gore's & WF's season pass products.  The passes become more attractive because they deliver more value to the purchaser.  I'd definitely consider my Gore/WF more to be more attractive if it came with some freebies for West, Willard, Titus, etc.  In theory this should help Gore, WF and all the areas sell more season passes.
 - The alliance concept is consistent with ORDA's mission to drive economic activity in the region.  It's in ORDA's interest to support the viability of the smaller regional ski hills.
 - I'm not a marketing guy, but I think there could be some value in creating an Adirondack "brand."

Adk Jeff wrote

 - I'm not a marketing guy

Sounds like you'd do just fine working for ORDA.

ADK Jeff..., yep agree 100%  with your "add-ons" comment.      


Regarding season passes and spending money at the resort.    I will enter the political frey again and pull an Anthony Gruber:  Passholder skiers are stupid and the resorts take advantage of them.    Pay for the pass in the spring/summer or early fall and then their minds "think" they are skiing free.     Lots of pocket cash to pay for goods the mountain offers you.      


I routinely see teenagers wipping out their Dad's debit card (read Snoloco) and paying $20 for lunch.    Lunch! Pizza, chips, snickers, soda, gum, fries---crappy lunch but $20 bucks none the same.  Bag weight or time is just a funny excuse for "I have too much money to take 5 minutes to make a good lunch"   Don't get me wrong, I love people with fat wallets or expendable money and think it is awesome that people have this attitude.    I smile and thank them internally for helping pay for snow making and lift expansion.   As such, I say lower season ticket prices and "let them eat cake".    $5.50 cake that is.....  


Sno--be honest now.    Do you ride MC with a back pack on?   Is this why a ham and cheese sammich would weigh you down?   What else is in your bag?    Hint: Put some powder mixes and an empty water bottle in your bag if you need sugary drinks for lunch.   Gatoraide also sells them.   $0.25c vs $5.75 at the mountain.  

For me, I find one or two bottles of beer are worth the "bag weight" at the end of the day.  A nice snow pile near the lodge keeps 'em cold. NYBLOGERS--don't go searching.     Sammich and powerbar goes in my pocket for lift. When I have kids, I can fit their sandwiches too. I do buy a basket of frenchfries to satisfy their need for grease, if necessary.      Water from the fountain is good for the soul.      

Benny Profane wrote

Adk Jeff wrote

 - I'm not a marketing guy

Sounds like you'd do just fine working for ORDA.

Just a master of BS from my day job as a bean counter.

I:)skiing wrote

 I routinely see teenagers wipping out their Dad's debit card (read Snoloco) and paying $20 for lunch.    Lunch! Pizza, chips, snickers, soda, gum, fries---crappy lunch but $20 bucks none the same.

Well, you don't know how his dad feels about it. Likely he's fine with it. Maybe it's a reward for Sno's hard work getting good grades. Many non skiing people take expensive vacations or spend considerable cash drinking so money spent skiing is no different. Look at the cash people spend driving long distances to ski OR supporting second homes at the MTN.

Don't you have a second home at Gore ? That would more than cover Sno's lunch bill.

Adk Jeff wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Adk Jeff wrote

 - I'm not a marketing guy

Sounds like you'd do just fine working for ORDA.

Just a master of BS from my day job as a bean counter.

Speaking of counting beans......

Why do they only put 239 beans in a can ?

Because one more would make it too farty !

ON PASSES:    Our mountain also drastically lowered the season pass to $399 a few years back.   Tons sold, more than ever, they too kept it for about 4 years and now are slowing raising.  $459 this year.     Lower taxes increases revenue--hey let's start a politics thread.  LOL.      

Find the average number of visiting/driving skier days....example 5.  Multiply by day rate ($69.00)  5 days times $69.00= 345.00     Sell season pass for $400.   It encourages that skier group to buy the pass.   If they come 5 days you win.   Many "hope" to come more, but won't.  If they come 6, your still even and have your money earlier.   If they come 7, so what, gouge them at the bar and cafeteria, ski shop.     In their mind they are skiing "free" so they may spend the cash in their pocket.   Remember, that season pass was paid for long ago.    If your skiers pay day rate, they just tossed $70 bucks away, not much more for the $8.00 beers or $9.00 hamburgers.      


A second real life example for what the thread actually began as; discounting passes as a way to to increase customers/

A couple things:
 - Ancillary revenue from selling burgers & fries, lessons & rentals.  That's not going to add up to a lot of revenue,

I wouldn't be so sure of that!  Have you bought a burger and fries lately.  I think they made an easy $10 on me.  Sell two thousand burgers on Saturday and 1000 on a Sunday, pretty soon yo are talking some good coin.

And don't get me started on the cost of beverages.  ALL of them, beer, coffee, hot chocolate--now that's some extortion.

I know there are those that dress themselves in the parking lots and behind dumpsters, those I call the homeless skiers, but the Tannery is PACKED on the weekend!

Lessons at a lot of mountains can be very profitable if one just compares hourly wage paid to teachers and hourly charges to customers.

Tip well.

It all depends on how many paying customers are in a class lesson.  On Saturday I taught 2 lessons each only had one person in it.  Great deal for the customers but not very profitable  for WF.   Much more likely to happen with higher level lesson.  It's the best deal going because a high level skier is much more likely to get a Level 3 instructor.

You do know that Orda outsources all food and beverage biz so they benefit little from those revenue sources.  On the plus side it lowers thier operating costs and risk.

I'm diggin Coach Z's input on these topics. His opinions are from the source.

So I am the one who started this debate. I make very little money so yes lift ticket cost is very important to me. I love stated before and I state again If I knew for sure that I get in over 12 days at platy in one winter  I buy that pass that is the when the pass pays for it self. I live about 60 miles from the CAts would love a pass but I I need the break point to either be less or Platty has shown that they can reocover from non snow events in a week of snowmaking then I buy a pass from them.

 Hopefully this weekend everyone will be enjoying snow their.

I:)skiing wrote

I routinely see teenagers wipping out their Dad's debit card (read Snoloco) and paying $20 for lunch.    Lunch! Pizza, chips, snickers, soda, gum, fries---crappy lunch but $20 bucks none the same.

HAHAHA!!!  That's me!!!

snoloco wrote

I:)skiing wrote

I routinely see teenagers wipping out their Dad's debit card (read Snoloco) and paying $20 for lunch.    Lunch! Pizza, chips, snickers, soda, gum, fries---crappy lunch but $20 bucks none the same.

HAHAHA!!!  That's me!!!

you are going to be in for a rude awaking in the not so distant future

freeheeln wrote

snoloco wrote

I:)skiing wrote

I routinely see teenagers wipping out their Dad's debit card (read Snoloco) and paying $20 for lunch.    Lunch! Pizza, chips, snickers, soda, gum, fries---crappy lunch but $20 bucks none the same.

HAHAHA!!!  That's me!!!

you are going to be in for a rude awaking in the not so distant future

I don't know. I see a tall tee park rat somewhere in Summit County in the making, living off that same credit card. The more distant future, eh, that's not so pretty.

Benny Profane wrote

The more distant future, eh, that's not so pretty.

Possibly sharing the abandoned shipping container with PA and eating at the Waste Management Buffet?