ORDA seems to be still making snow?

Saw GORE pop up on my facebook this morning showing snowmaking occuring?

I thought that's done?

Whiteface maybe doing the same on account of horrendus weather?

Bell is making snow too.  While little money was spent in December this seems to contradict what Mike P has told me many times: snowmaking budget is determined by skier visits. I got to believe visits are down dramatically across the northeast.

We'll find out when they report them.  My guess is they're way down.

Harvey wrote

Bell is making snow too.  While little money was spent in December this seems to contradict what Mike P has told me many times: snowmaking budget is determined by skier visits. I got to believe visits are down dramatically across the northeast.

It was pretty obvious during president's week using the eyeball test.

Why not? It's not as though they have to show a profit. Or even contain losses, to a certain degree.

I was at Belleayre today, given what they went through the last few days weather wise, mother nature helped out big giving them about 1-3in of snow depending on elevation last night. Had it not been for that the mountain would be in really bad shape.

They are blowing a good amount of snow where they can and realistically they don't have much choice. Many of the run out areas were in really bad shape as are a lot of the connectors. The current weekly forecast doesn't look great for them so had they not taken this 36hr period to blow what they can I could see them having to close the lower mountain and even the Super Chief in a weeks time.

WF is not making any snow

Gore and ORDA have stepped up big time to provide a loop of manmade for multiple cross-country ski races kin this disastrous winter.  

A big thank you to ORDA and Gore for making snow so the NYSSRA Nordic championships can happen this weekend.

Peter Minde wrote

Gore and ORDA have stepped up big time to provide a loop of manmade for multiple cross-country ski races kin this disastrous winter.  

A big thank you to ORDA and Gore for making snow so the NYSSRA Nordic championships can happen this weekend.

They didn't make snow for the xc, the xc course encompasses the tubing hill and a portion of the base area of the lift 13. orda made the choice to kill the tubing and welcome the xc. And since the town of Johnsburg owns the land and the orda contract calls for a tubing hill to be in place, each year, orda is breaking their contract with the TOJ. There has been no reason why the tube hill was abandoned, since the MO for orda is The Schultz..."I know nothing, I know nothing!" (kinda like the darkside, and the other shhhh moments from this season...) With the lack of other recreational nightime activities, the lack of tubing this year has been another difficult hurdle for TOJ to overcome with this winter.
Lapland Lake, a private run xc facility always hosted the races, now orda jumps in and takes the $$ from Lapland. orda gets $5 a head for each racer, and none of the racers nor the parents patronize any businesses in TOJ...
I, and many others would really like to see NYS get out of the ski business, and lease Gore to a company that would better utilize the facility and actually communicate with the the community. I had an interesting conversation this past week with a Killington area business owner, and his thoughts were that Big K does what it does (snowmaking and grooming always) because they know that they are the economic engine for that area, and they care about the economic well being of the area. orda may do this with the LP area as that's where the ole boys club that runs orda have their businesses. Here in TOJ, orda, at most times, could care less about the economic well being of the community.
#ordahastogo

I'm not too fond of the state running a ski mountain or two or three, but, careful what you're wishing for there. I would predict that Gore would be out of business in at least five years if it went private. Whiteface would probably survive, because it's an iconic spot in upstate NY, but, Gore? Nope. Poof, gone. No beds, no restaraunts. No great following of downstate and Joisey skiers. They all go to Vermont. Lower elevation relative to Vermont hills means less snow and lacking in quality. It's saving grace is it's wonderful taxpayer funded infrastructure, including lifts, snowmaking, and grooming. Some may argue, like myself, great terrain, but the average schmoe doesn't ski trees. And then, of course, are all the problems in store for any private developer who wants to expand in North Creek, part of the ADK park.

Sorry to sound so cynical, but, I'm in Summit County in Co. For a few months again, and I see what people want, and that's Breckenridge. Jezuz, is that place and town popular. I despise it for all that, but Vail corp has totally figured out what the eight day a year gaper wants, and that's it. You should see the terrain parks, though. Holy moly. You have not seen a park if you haven't seen theirs.

Benny Profane wrote

I'm not too fond of the state running a ski mountain or two or three, but, careful what you're wishing for there. I would predict that Gore would be out of business in at least five years if it went private. Whiteface would probably survive, because it's an iconic spot in upstate NY, but, Gore? Nope. Poof, gone. No beds, no restaraunts. No great following of downstate and Joisey skiers. They all go to Vermont. Lower elevation relative to Vermont hills means less snow and lacking in quality. It's saving grace is it's wonderful taxpayer funded infrastructure, including lifts, snowmaking, and grooming. Some may argue, like myself, great terrain, but the average schmoe doesn't ski trees. And then, of course, are all the problems in store for any private developer who wants to expand in North Creek, part of the ADK park.

If we are going to engage the 'NYS sells Gore fantasy', its success would purely be based on the sale price. If an investor bought Gore for a  satisfactory price it would only take advertising in NYC metro, additional pump power in order to run more guns at one time and expanded parking. Within 3-5 years you could expect to be hitting 275k-325k visits per season. That would solidify RE developments and food/beverage in the area.

Once Gore got out from under the ORDA/Lake Placid masters it would easily compete and surpass WF for visits - something ORDA never wants to see.

Benny Profane wrote

Sorry to sound so cynical, but, I'm in Summit County in Co. For a few months again, and I see what people want, and that's Breckenridge. Jezuz, is that place and town popular. I despise it for all that, but Vail corp has totally figured out what the eight day a year gaper wants, and that's it. You should see the terrain parks, though. Holy moly. You have not seen a park if you haven't seen theirs.

There is really no point in an Eastern vs Western comparison. Very few people are getting on a plane for Eastern skiing.

Let's not get into this Gore vs LP thing again please.  Orda has pumped significant capex into Gore even though Gore does not generate anywhere near the same payback in tourism and sales taxes that LP does.  Gore only makes money for the state thru their direct revenues.  WF does the same and then makes many many times more in taxes generated in hotels, restaurants etc.  

Note that WF is not blowing any more snow but Gore and Bellarye both are.  Why Orda is letting Bellarye blow snow that is going to melt in a week is beyond me.

Maybe because WF has more snow than Gore or Belleayre has.  They might not need anymore at Whiteface.

Coach Z wrote

Let's not get into this Gore vs LP thing again please.

Well you just kept it going.

x10003q wrote

Benny Profane wrote

I'm not too fond of the state running a ski mountain or two or three, but, careful what you're wishing for there. I would predict that Gore would be out of business in at least five years if it went private. Whiteface would probably survive, because it's an iconic spot in upstate NY, but, Gore? Nope. Poof, gone. No beds, no restaraunts. No great following of downstate and Joisey skiers. They all go to Vermont. Lower elevation relative to Vermont hills means less snow and lacking in quality. It's saving grace is it's wonderful taxpayer funded infrastructure, including lifts, snowmaking, and grooming. Some may argue, like myself, great terrain, but the average schmoe doesn't ski trees. And then, of course, are all the problems in store for any private developer who wants to expand in North Creek, part of the ADK park.

If we are going to engage the 'NYS sells Gore fantasy', its success would purely be based on the sale price. If an investor bought Gore for a  satisfactory price it would only take advertising in NYC metro, additional pump power in order to run more guns at one time and expanded parking. Within 3-5 years you could expect to be hitting 275k-325k visits per season. That would solidify RE developments and food/beverage in the area.

Once Gore got out from under the ORDA/Lake Placid masters it would easily compete and surpass WF for visits - something ORDA never wants to see.

Benny Profane wrote

Sorry to sound so cynical, but, I'm in Summit County in Co. For a few months again, and I see what people want, and that's Breckenridge. Jezuz, is that place and town popular. I despise it for all that, but Vail corp has totally figured out what the eight day a year gaper wants, and that's it. You should see the terrain parks, though. Holy moly. You have not seen a park if you haven't seen theirs.

There is really no point in an Eastern vs Western comparison. Very few people are getting on a plane for Eastern skiing.

The last, first. What's important is that hundreds of thousands are getting on a plane to go west, as fares stay low and will eventually drop more with fuel prices dropping. There's your Breckenridge customer. The 12 day a year gaper who hasn't even heard of Gore, and probably never ever will ski there. They get on their smahtfone and do the whole package in a flash and inflate the MasterCard bill even more. Breck is more chill, dude. Daddy and and mommy are paying for most of it, anyway. Where are they going to pahtay at Gore?

Seriously. Skiing is a shrinking market. The amount of people in our ever unequeal society who can afford such an expensive and trivial activity shrinks by the day. Those people aren't going to wake up and want to ski at Gore. Vail corp figured out that market a long time ago. And, they do it well.

So, if you accept that skiing is a shrinking market (it's not very big in the first place), then why in the world would any major company even consider buying a socialist ski hill in the ADK, with a zillion restrictions on development and probably snowmaking water sources? With a zero party town at the base, and hardly any beds? Trust me, Vermont, especially after this season is chock full of better buyout material. Betcha phone calls are being made right now.

Coach Z wrote

Note that WF is not blowing any more snow but Gore and Bellarye both are.  Why Orda is letting Bellarye blow snow that is going to melt in a week is beyond me.

I suspect the reason they are blowing snow is because, given this weeks forecast atleast, the lower mountain would be lost by next weekend, most likely including the Super Chief lift.

With Hunter blowing away still and the possibility of a very early closure at Belleayre what choice did they have? You risk alot of pass holders taking a very long look at Belleayre's Neighbors to the north who's massive advantage in snow making capacity as really shown through this year.

While Belleayre was desperately trying to even open more trails Hunter and Windham were resurfacing frequently.

Mountains across the northeast are continuing to make snow.  IMO the answer is not specific to ORDA.

I'd be really surprised if Vail doesn't buy an Eastern resort this off season.  Bringing an Epic pass into the Eastern market would be a serious game changer

The idea that Gore might get sold is ludicrous.  No private business would want a resort with the restrictions that the APA put on WF and Gore.  They have no bed base and it would take a state constitutional amendment to sell them.  That is a 2 to 3 year process.

Throwing good money after bad just doesn't make sense.  Bellarye pass holders can still ski at WF and Gore where it's colder and snow will last more than a week.  Gore needs snow blown right now more than WF.

Coach Z wrote

I'd be really surprised if Vail doesn't buy an Eastern resort this off season.  Bringing an Epic pass into the Eastern market would be a serious game changer

The idea that Gore might get sold is ludicrous.  No private business would want a resort with the restrictions that the APA put on WF and Gore.  They have no bed base and it would take a state constitutional amendment to sell them.  That is a 2 to 3 year process.

Throwing good money after bad just doesn't make sense.  Bellarye pass holders can still ski at WF and Gore where it's colder and snow will last more than a week.  Gore needs snow blown right now more than WF.

 Which one would it be? I'm surprised they haven't gotten into the east coast market already.

Could a corporation like Vail make an attractive enough offer for APA to loosen the restrictions currently in place?  

Personally I don't see Vail acquiring a NY hill.  My guess would be VT.

The only NY mountain I could imagine would be Windham. Otherwise VT is the only logical choice