ORDA seems to be still making snow?

There's a lot of arguing just to argue here.

Also, MRG is open with 40 trails.

Coach Z wrote

Why would anyone buy a Bellarye  only pass when for $90 more you get WF and Gore too?

I feel like you don't read more than the first line of what I write. I said I have a Midweek Season pass and I said there is no comparable Ski3 product. So I go from $289 to $759.

Given the way snowmaking temps have ebbed and flowed, along with the very late start I would be very surprised if ORDA's various allocations are anywhere near used up.

I said the same thing earlier.  SKI3 is only available with the unrestricted pass.  It actually makes your pass cost over twice as much, which not everyone can necessarily afford.

The Noreaster Pass is a 300 dollar upgrade over an unrestricted Hunter pass.  If you have a midweek pass, it is Hunter-only.  If you get a multi-resort pass from Peak Resorts, it is unrestricted and the price reflects that at over 1,000 dollars.  ORDA is the same story.

Harvey wrote

I think it is silly to say Mad is silly. Private groups or people do all kinds of silly things for their own enjoyment. Some might say buying a car costing more than say $30k is silly. Buying the land Zelda and I bought in the Adirondacks was silly.  But we are spending our own money in a way that makes us happy.

It is absolutely silly to compare MRG to other ongoing ski area businesses that are completely profit driven. They made decisions based on what they want, so for the members to maintain the Betsy Pratt Way for themselves is fine. But, MRG can be criticized, too, because they do take the publics' money for season passes. That doesn't change the fact that they are a unique situation and really not at all like any other similar size ski area in the East. To bring MRG up as the "smart group" for not blowing snow right now is silly.

Harvey wrote

IMO the only relevant discussion of silly should be related to public money.  

With regard to WF, Gore and Bell that wealth transfer is not just to the wealthy, it helps local economies.  There are issues with regard to publicly funded competition to private enterprise. The Adks are a bit of a done deal, but the Catskills are still in play.

I agree with this -
The transfer of wealth argument in this situation is weak. People have always lived in the Park and they need to be able to support themselves. It is difficult to balance at times, but recreation seems to be the best way to try and maintain both sides of the equation.

sorry I didn't catch that mid week bit.  For under 300 bucks you know what you are getting and most likely have gotten your moneys worth out of that pass.  It would be a simple matter if they did pull the plug on Bellarye early this year to allow your pass to be honored at Gore and WF.  Killington is doing the same thing with Pico.  it would also be a way to market the other 2 areas to holders of that budget Bell pass.

On the other comment Orda is waaaaaaaaaaay over budget on snowmaking from what I have heard.  The warm temps force them to make snow less efficiently when they did make snow.  Also the metering issue is a huge issue that will make everything they do from run lifts to have the lights on in the lodge for the rest of March much more expensive.

It's not like Whiteface and Gore are just up the road from Belleayre, they're 2.5 and 1.5 hours further for someone coming from the South.  For me, Belleayre is 2 hours away and Gore is 3.5.  Whiteface is 4.5 and not doable without a hotel stay ($$$).  If Belleayre was prematurely shut down, their passholders might well end up at Hunter and maybe get a pass there next year.  It's cheaper to buy a likely discounted late season lift ticket at Hunter ($50) than to pay for a hotel room ($150).  

Z, you live right next to Whiteface and have no idea what a ski trip there requires for most people (hotel stay, lots of driving, and $$$).

If ORDA would honor my midweek pass at Whiteface and Gore, closing Belleayre for the season in the process (whenever that is) I would be perfectly content with that. I view that as highly unlikely though.

snoloco wrote

  Whiteface is 4.5 and not doable without a hotel stay ($$$).  

Where is your can do "core" attitude kid? This is not satisfactory Sno.

It's totally doable. Leave at 4 and be there for the chair by 9. Nail huge cups of coffee for the whole drive home.

I'm pretty sure Z has an idea of what it costs to travel and ski since he's an adult that funds his family who travels with his son who races (hotel stay, lots of driving, and $$$).  Whereas you don't pay for your own skiing yet. SMH.

Anyone who has been blowing or blew a little (or a lot) of snow to recover from last week is playing the long game. Had Gore done nothing while Killington pounded Superstar, I would have at least considered getting a Killington/Pico pass next season and moving my kids' programs to another mountain. Thankfully they blew enough snow, groomed well, and put in the work to provide a really fun experience this past weekend.

I consider the amount of snowmaking at certain mountains and posting pictures of it on the internet as some of the best ski marketing out there. Feel free to take notes Emily.

snoloco wrote

It's not like Whiteface and Gore are just up the road from Belleayre, they're 2.5 and 1.5 hours further for someone coming from the South.  For me, Belleayre is 2 hours away and Gore is 3.5.  Whiteface is 4.5 and not doable without a hotel stay ($$$).  If Belleayre was prematurely shut down, their passholders might well end up at Hunter and maybe get a pass there next year.  It's cheaper to buy a likely discounted late season lift ticket at Hunter ($50) than to pay for a hotel room ($150).  

Z, you live right next to Whiteface and have no idea what a ski trip there requires for most people (hotel stay, lots of driving, and $$$).

YUKON CORNELIUS wrote

I'm pretty sure Z has an idea of what it costs to travel and ski since he's an adult that funds his family who travels with his son who races (hotel stay, lots of driving, and $$$).  Whereas you don't pay for your own skiing yet. SMH.

And he always complains about when his son's races are anywhere but Whiteface.

When he had to go to Windham this year he said that "me and all the other race parents from Whiteface and Gore were very pissed to be driving hours SOUTH, to ski a small, crowded mountain."  Then he went on to say how horrible the race venue was and that they shouldn't have been allowed to host it and it should have been at Whiteface instead.

He said the same exact thing about Hunter and Belleayre the two years prior.

YUKON CORNELIUS wrote

I'm pretty sure Z has an idea of what it costs to travel and ski since he's an adult that funds his family who travels with his son who races (hotel stay, lots of driving, and $$$).  Whereas you don't pay for your own skiing yet. SMH.

Burn!

Having your parents pay for your skiing......so core.

raisingarizona wrote

Where is your can do "core" attitude kid? This is not satisfactory Sno.

It's totally doable. Leave at 4 and be there for the chair by 9. Nail huge cups of coffee for the whole drive home.

Hey maybe I am core!  

And I also recent posted how much I like going to races at West Mt which is much smaller than Windham but IMO 1000% better.  West is better than Gore for races becuase it's very hard to see much on Twister.  If I lived in GF or Saratoga I'm sure I would get a pass for West even just to ski some week nights.  I like the vibe there.

Not a news flash that I am not a fan of skiing in the Cats.  It's crazy crowded, expensive, and the lack of decent lodging options is appalling and the skiing is poor.  I have not skied Platty which looks to be none of the above though.  I wish they had a race program there so I could get a reason to visit.

Back to the topic...

Plattekill is the anti Catskill, Catskill area. If that makes sense.

Go when there is a bunch of snow coach. Sometimes they get those big (nor-easters I think?) storms that dump a lot more than up north. It's worth your time.

Harvey wrote

raisingarizona wrote

Where is your can do "core" attitude kid? This is not satisfactory Sno.

It's totally doable. Leave at 4 and be there for the chair by 9. Nail huge cups of coffee for the whole drive home.

Hey maybe I am core!  

 
I used to do that when I was 17-18 and still living in New Jersey. I even paid for it myself!

I even drove to MRG for a day of skiing one time and then back home that same night. Not advised tho, it was a little sketchy towards the end.

Now, every now and then I'll drive for 14 hours straight to get to Jackson for a weekend of skiing and then another 14 to get home in a day. It's been a while being in school but it happens.

I still make those drives in my 40s. Some times you just have to do it. 3.5 hours is totally doable.

Coach Z wrote

Not a news flash that I am not a fan of skiing in the Cats.  It's crazy crowded, expensive, and the lack of decent lodging options is appalling and the skiing is poor.  I have not skied Platty which looks to be none of the above though.  I wish they had a race program there so I could get a reason to visit.

I'll do the 3:15 each way to WF, up and back in a day, but it has to be for a likely Slides day, or maybe after a BIG storm.  

raisingarizona wrote

YUKON CORNELIUS wrote

I'm pretty sure Z has an idea of what it costs to travel and ski since he's an adult that funds his family who travels with his son who races (hotel stay, lots of driving, and $$$).  Whereas you don't pay for your own skiing yet. SMH.

Burn!

Having your parents pay for your skiing......so core.

I'm going to hit up my old man for a lift ticket this weekend just so I can be "core".

Arizona, (and all) a good business plan is not based on one year, or one season in the case of a ski resort. Especially a ski resort because of how temperamental Mother Nature can be. A good business plan/budget is based on 3-5 years, with the assumption that you are going to have a bad year now and then. There is nothing silly about blowing snow in March once out of 5 years. Most ski area GM's are skiers, and have a passion for the sport, otherwise they wouldn't be investing their livelihood on something that completely disappears when you piss on it. I wish we had some real GM's on this forum who could tell us the real story, but from what little I know about running my own place, and talking to other real GM's, this seems to be the case.

Regarding my home-based operation, (since you asked) we have approximately a $1000-1200/year budget. Most of this is for annual improvements, and the rest is used to fuel the snowmaker, and the lift.  This is cash that I earn from my part time construction business, and part time job as a grounds keeper at a hotel up in Cooperstown. My father also suports my project and usually contributes a couple hundred bucks to my latest project. And this is all when I'm not at college. On a good year like last, I make maybe $200 in donations from visitors. This year I have made nothing. But I could care less because it's a hobby for me. Ok, I'll confess, my parents pay for my food. I still live at home, I'm 18. Although I often pay for my lift tickets to ski elseware. My parens are not wealthy people. They are pretty close to average CNYers who like to ski, and manage their money extremely meticulously. They also make me work so that they do not have to pay someone else to do so. As a result we are able to live on a nice hillside with ski slopes, and enjoy expensive hobbies like skiing.

This year, my season at Woodstream consisted of about 4 weeks, and making/ re-making snow three times. It's over now, and i didn't make a single penny, but I don't regret it at all. I might even fire up later this week. And now I'm going to invest in more snowmaking for next year.

The only point I'm trying to make is that I do this because it's fun. I am not rich, I am average, and I am not trying to get rich. A proper GM with the proper business plan should feel the same way. IMO March snowmaking should be in the budget, and if you don't have to do it, that's money in your pocket. I want to make a career out of this someday.