Objectivity

JTG4eva! wrote

I don’t doubt that experiencing tRump was a disappointing, regretful thing.  However, did you go to the Jamboree just for him?  If you did I suppose you had to listen.  If you didn’t go just for tRump.....I suspect next time you would go, and just not waste your time listening to him.  The Jamboree has/had more to offer the participants than just tRump, I suspect.

A championship visit to the White House I’m sure is the same way, there’s more to it than the short period of glad handing to be tolerated with king dotard.

No. I beg to differ.  A championship visit to the White House is everything about the President you're going to meet. Otherwise, it's just a WhiteHouse tour open to the public. Or did Trump ban those already??

JTG4eva! wrote

I don’t doubt that experiencing tRump was a disappointing, regretful thing.  However, did you go to the Jamboree just for him?  If you did I suppose you had to listen.  If you didn’t go just for tRump.....I suspect next time you would go, and just not waste your time listening to him.  The Jamboree has/had more to offer the participants than just tRump, I suspect.

A championship visit to the White House I’m sure is the same way, there’s more to it than the short period of glad handing to be tolerated with king dotard.

See, that's just the problem ... Seeing the President in person should NOT be a disappointing, regretful thing, regardless of your political views.

"The King is dead, long live the King". It shouldn't be about the individual, but rather the office. Unfortunately, the individual currently occupying the office doesn't understand that. For him, it's ALL about him, and he most certainly demonstrated that when he spoke at the Jamboree.

If I was an athlete who was invited to the White House by this individual, why would I want to go? He's just going to make it about himself, not what I accomplished. He's proven that time and time again.

Fair enough guys, you are going to see it how you are going to see it.  If you view it as being about the individual, as opposed to the institution and the office, I’m in no position to tell you that you are wrong.  You view such a Championship visit as being about hanging with the Prez, whereas I view it as celebrating your Championship with the Nation at the seat of power of the greatest nation on the face of the Earth.  Agree to disagree.......except on the fact that said power does not really rest with ONE person.

Not surprising that we see it differently, because not showing up for this is kinda sorta like not standing for the anthem.  Your Nation, by virtue of tradition, has invited you to the Capital to celebrate your championship with the Nation, and you decline the honor and give the country the big F-U because you don’t like who happens to be sleeping in the Lincoln Bed.

A Nation which elected a reality TV star with 6 bankruptcies, 11 sexual assault allegations, 4000 lawsuits and who disparages war veterans even as he 5 x draft dodged, quite frankly maybe deserves a couple of FUs!

Resist!!  

I took what Sir Charles was saying as this --- the majority of us already know tRump is a buffoon, no denying that. GS spent their time on Twitter telling us that but we already knew that. I think what his point is is that they could've put their personal beliefs aside and give the guy a chance to do something worth while. What if they went there and actually had a good conversation with him regarding  cops shooting unarmed suspects, racial inequalities, health care, or you pick whatever topic you want. What if? Maybe then they could've came home and tweeted, hey this guy actually listened to us. Lets see what happens. You know trying to promote solidarity just like Jerry Jones did. Face4Me did that. He gave the guy a chance. I actually value his opinion regarding tRump more because of that. We're stuck with this guy so why not remain hopeful that eventually something good may come out of it.

JTG - I think what we're seeing is that now anyone who stands for the National Anthem with their hand over their heart is somehow a tRump supporter. I applaud you, Billy, and whomever else has stated that your kids will always do that.

I had a couple beers last night with a buddy of mine who's girlfriend is a librarian at an elementary school. He was telling me that she now has students who are sitting during the Pledge of Allegiance. We talked how these are little kids. Kids in kindergarten thru 6th grade. Kids that have no idea why they are sitting other than that's what they see on TV. They see people kneeling during the National Anthem but they truly have no ability to know why. They don't  have one single clue about our freedoms and why we have them. They have no idea that people gave their lives for this country.

Seriously. Sad state of affairs.

Yeah, SJ, and maybe the sports fans, who want to see their stars celebrate a championship, should give the old F-U back, by not buying tickets, watching games on TV, and buying the jerseys of a bunch of fucking ingrates!

Really, tRump is a disease of a Commander in Chief.  However, as you agreed, when responding “Good Read” to this....

All that matters is that Trump is shredding the culture and ending the dominance of the meritocratic establishment.

.....tRump is doing what he was elected to do, something that has happened in the past, something every culture may need now and again.  I’m not saying it’s pretty, but tRump will be gone at the end of his term (or sooner, who knows), and the Nation will emerge better for it because of the ‘oh, God, never again, we need to fix it’ realization that we, as a Nation, asked to be slapped in the head with.

Yes, tRump is a pompous, narcissistic ass who is tearing at the fabric of our political system and, unfortunately, more.  Maybe it’s necessary, maybe it’s not, but it’s what we’ve got.  It’s what we, collectively, voted for.  He roundly deserves to be criticized for selfishly making it all about himself.  I wholeheartedly agree.

However, what I don’t agree with is a bunch of spoiled, rich, ungrateful athletes acting no better than tRump, making the National Anthem and Championship celebrations all about themselves, taking the frayed corners of our culture that tRump has created.....and tearing the fabric of our society to the very core.

Really, at a time when our country is suffering through tRump do we really need more people behaving like tRump, making it all about themselves?  

No, I say we need to see our athletes stand for the National Anthem, and show up at the White House to celebrate a championship with the Nation and their fans, to give people some sense of normalcy, something to hold fast to, in this time of chaos.  Sports has always been an escape.  It’s not reality.  It’s grown men getting paid godawful amounts of money to play games because that’s what people want to see, to take their minds off of the tRumps of the world, and these selfish sonsabitches have to take that away?

No, sorry, unacceptable!

#bethebiggerpersons

I think that the players standing and locking arms, black & white, is a much better sign of unity than kneeling. It brings the issue to the forefront and shows that the white guys are standing by their black team mates without offending those who feel it is a sign of disrespect to veterans to kneel.
I still think that players have a right to kneel if they want to but freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. I also feel that all of those people who are more ticked-off by the kneeling than by Trump offending a veteran and former POW are "false patriots".

campgottagopee wrote

What if they went there and actually had a good conversation with him regarding  cops shooting unarmed suspects, racial inequalities, health care, or you pick whatever topic you want. What if?

Regardless of reality, Trump would Tweet about how much the athletes loved him and had a great conversation and agree with him. He would make shit up, as he has done many many times. Trump is a caricature of everything wrong with humanity. There seems to be no limit to what he will do to focus attention - good or bad - on himself.

A leader needs the capacity to be selfless at times, to be  humble at times, to make sacrifices. Trump has none of that. Trump is not a leader. Leaders don't bully. And that is exactly what Trump is, a bully.

billyymc wrote

campgottagopee wrote

What if they went there and actually had a good conversation with him regarding  cops shooting unarmed suspects, racial inequalities, health care, or you pick whatever topic you want. What if?

Regardless of reality, Trump would Tweet about how much the athletes loved him and had a great conversation and agree with him. He would make shit up, as he has done many many times. Trump is a caricature of everything wrong with humanity. There seems to be no limit to what he will do to focus attention - good or bad - on himself.

A leader needs the capacity to be selfless at times, to be  humble at times, to make sacrifices. Trump has none of that. Trump is not a leader. Leaders don't bully. And that is exactly what Trump is, a bully.

I'm not disagreeing with you Billy. In fact I agree. All I'm saying is I feel that these "role models" left an opportunity on the table to do real good and promote real change IF tRump did the right thing. They stooped to his level imo. They should've been the bigger person and gone to the White House. Then they could've come back and stated what we already know with true validity by trying too make a difference.  

JTG4eva! wrote

.....tRump is doing what he was elected to do

No he's not. He was elected to lead the country, not be a giant douche.

JTG4eva! wrote

No, I say we need to see our athletes stand for the National Anthem, and show up at the White House to celebrate a championship with the Nation and their fans, to give people some sense of normalcy, something to hold fast to, in this time of chaos.

Not important. Trump is getting the level of respect he has cultivated. Trump has created the chaos. It's Trump who is disrespecting the office of the President more than anyone else in this country. He's made a mockery out of it, and every single person in the country should be upset about it.

trackbiker wrote

I think that the players standing and locking arms, black & white, is a much better sign of unity than kneeling. It brings the issue to the forefront and shows that the white guys are standing by their black team mates without offending those who feel it is a sign of disrespect to veterans to kneel.

+1

trackbiker wrote

I still think that players have a right to kneel if they want to but freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. I also feel that all of those people who are more ticked-off by the kneeling than by Trump offending a veteran and former POW are "false patriots".

+1,000,000,000,000,000

campgottagopee wrote

I'm not disagreeing with you Billy. In fact I agree. All I'm saying is I feel that these "role models" left an opportunity on the table to do real good and promote real change IF tRump did the right thing. They stooped to his level imo. They should've been the bigger person and gone to the White House. Then they could've come back and stated what we already know with true validity by trying too make a difference.

I get your point. Tough situation all around, and no great answer.

billyymc wrote

Not important. Trump is getting the level of respect he has cultivated. Trump has created the chaos. It's Trump who is disrespecting the office of the President more than anyone else in this country. He's made a mockery out of it, and every single person in the country should be upset about it.

+1

trackbiker wrote

I think that the players standing and locking arms, black & white, is a much better sign of unity than kneeling. It brings the issue to the forefront and shows that the white guys are standing by their black team mates without offending those who feel it is a sign of disrespect to veterans to kneel.
I still think that players have a right to kneel if they want to but freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. I also feel that all of those people who are more ticked-off by the kneeling than by Trump offending a veteran and former POW are "false patriots".

Yes!

BillyMC you are my brother!  You understand!  

Resist!  

billyymc wrote

campgottagopee wrote

I'm not disagreeing with you Billy. In fact I agree. All I'm saying is I feel that these "role models" left an opportunity on the table to do real good and promote real change IF tRump did the right thing. They stooped to his level imo. They should've been the bigger person and gone to the White House. Then they could've come back and stated what we already know with true validity by trying too make a difference.

I get your point. Tough situation all around, and no great answer.

I know. That's just thing, there is no great answer. i was totally on board with Steph and KD saying FU to tRump. Sir Charles made me rethink my opinion.

You flip and flop like a pumkin seed on the bottom of a john boat!  

Face4Me wrote

billyymc wrote

Not important. Trump is getting the level of respect he has cultivated. Trump has created the chaos. It's Trump who is disrespecting the office of the President more than anyone else in this country. He's made a mockery out of it, and every single person in the country should be upset about it.

+1

The majority of us are upset by it. I think it's only 1/3 of the country that still support this clown. So while some would like us to feel divided I prefer to look at the glass as being 2/3 full. That said, I refuse to look down my nose at those who voted for the guy

Huh??? Because I changed my mind??? Weak sauce Scotty.

This seems relevant to your false accusations:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jerry-rice-changes-his-mind-on-colin-kaepernick-kneeling-during-the-anthem/