Petition for ORDA to take over Big Tupper

Z wrote

I totally don’t believe this 90 inch snow avg being tossed about
Where did that come from?  I think X or someone against this but what was the source?

I forget which one it was, but google the sites that have info on historical snowfall.

Marble Mountain vs. Whiteface....pretty close spots in the same area, one suitable for snow, one not.  You keep ignoring the proof.  Even if the 90 inches isn’t accurate, the multiple failures happened for a reason, and it seems lack of snow was one of them (see BT 2012).

Shared a gondola ride this morning  with a bunch of locals, all familiar with the town of Tupper and the need for economic development (on top of the money that’s been put into Main St. recently).  Not one of them though BT would attract anything but Tupper locals.

Thanks for reposting that video. This is what I think should happen to BT. Put a warming hut/cabin at the top with a wood stove and make it available for overnights, brush out the trails and glades, get rid of the pipes and lifts and you would have a unique place for people who like to earn turns and have natural snow.

That would be cool.  I’d bet the State would be less likely to go for that than a traditional reopening of BT, which probably isn’t happening (petitions or not).

We agree on one thing - keep any expenditure on BT to an absolute minimum. What I am proposing could likely be done with the funds from selling of the last of the infrastructure (lifts, pipe, etc).

Wasn’t the project about trying to save the community and bring back some economic life?

An earn your turns mountain that gets less than 100 inches isn’t going to do that. Sorry y’all but 90 inches doesn’t really cut the mustard. I mean seriously, how many days a season on average would there be good enough skiing to attract anyone? Why would anyone bother with Vermont over there?

The maintenance would cost more than anything it would ever bring in.

Well, sure, but do you think Gore makes a profit. This is upstate welfare. Just be sensible about it, and stop with the zillion dollar real estate BS.

There is no “project” so the objective is what ever you make it. Saying that BT ski area gets the same annual snow fall as Tupper Lake is like saying the Greens of Vermont get the same snowfall as Middlebury (60” on average annually).
1) you don’t need nearly the base depth when the terrain is not real steep, no big rocks and mostly grassy.
2) you turn what is now unused land into a park for 12 months or recreational use (add mountain biking in the summer and snow shoeing).
3) maintenance would be far less than any downhill ski area that will perpetually lose money.

I would rather see it go back to woods than see the state dump money into it. If people are hell bent on doing something with it, don’t do something that will add to the deepening  debt of the state.

A couple observations:
1. Most important; ORDA isn’t going to get involved just to prop up a modest local ski hill. If they get involved, the goal will be to increase the value of the SKI3 pass (now SKI4 I guess) and to extend the area’s tourist economy to the winter season. So if ORDA is the savior, I would count on quads, terrain expansion, lots of snowmaking and grooming... maybe even a gondola and a mountain coaster. So....
2. If you want a modest operation it will have to be the town or county (maybe with some state money) or a private individual. Which brings me to....
3. There is the “billionaire with a compound”. I’m interested to hear more about this guy and what the locals think of him. First is he actually a billionaire? Or is just a rich guy who has more money then anybody from town has ever seen? If I had a net worth of say, 20 mil, I’d be pretty hesitant to start down a road that might eat up half of it with no ROI but if I was an actual billionaire and I thought the community would appreciate my efforts I wouldn’t mind sinking in the money it would take to resurrect the place as what it actually has potential to be- a cool, modest mountain. How has this guy been treated in the local press? Is he vilified and lumped in with the con artists and local politician social climbers or is viewed as a fellow victim? If the” billionaire “ is a skier and feels like a part of the local community, I don’t see why this wouldn’t be an option.
4. The no lifts, earn your turns option. This seems like a no-brainer if the resort isn’t reopened. Like Petex said, all they would have to do is designate it a park and keep the trails trimmed. The town could probably lease the lodge to somebody to be operated as a restaurant year round.

Someone should get a petition going for the billionaire to take over BT!

I do love the idea of the town park model.

I guess I was stuck in the thinking that the projects main intention was to bring back some money into the community.

RA-There’s an attraction in Tupper called The Wild Center, a first class interactive nature center that gets a lot of tourist traffic in the summer from vacationers all over the Daks. Unfortunately Tupper barely sees a dollar from the people that go there. It’s a family place, they bring their lunch and don’t go to the bars. I am afraid turning Tupper into another LP is never going to happen. MTB might bring some bar & restaurant traffic, same with BC skiing & snowshoeing. You could even add snowmobiling to the mix and that would bring some traffic. At best it will be a small boost. But there is an underutilized asset there that may not make money but would serve a useful purpose.

Not to fuel the fire, if you want to stay real close to the 3 ORDA hills, good options are hard to find.  And if it is last minute just forget about it.  And the whole get up early and hop in the freezing SUV to get there when the lifts open just stinks.

With ORDA running Big Tupper, would probably have a few hotels built right away to support the demand.  One of the hotels would likely end up on the door step of Big Tupper.

The only reason ORDA would hate Big Tupper because it would be first to open verses the other 3 (and maybe a longer ski season verses the other 3).

Bring on the snow makers.

PeeTex wrote

There is no “project” so the objective is what ever you make it. Saying that BT ski area gets the same annual snow fall as Tupper Lake is like saying the Greens of Vermont get the same snowfall as Middlebury (60” on average annually).
1) you don’t need nearly the base depth when the terrain is not real steep, no big rocks and mostly grassy.
2) you turn what is now unused land into a park for 12 months or recreational use (add mountain biking in the summer and snow shoeing).
3) maintenance would be far less than any downhill ski area that will perpetually lose money.

I would rather see it go back to woods than see the state dump money into it. If people are hell bent on doing something with it, don’t do something that will add to the deepening  debt of the state.

The state will always be in debt. It's the nature of things. Trust me, there's much more wasteful expenditures.

That's why I said, get the local rep involved. It's their job to play the money game. That's what Albany is all about, distributing the booty.

SnowBound wrote

With ORDA running Big Tupper, would probably have a few hotels built right away to support the demand.  One of the hotels would likely end up on the door step of Big Tupper.

Good idea. Build the Grand Tupper Summit Hotel and Casino.  How could that ever fail?

mm

Does Gore even have a hotel?

Benny Profane wrote

Does Gore even have a hotel?

Don’t confuse the masses with facts and logic.

There are 2 large hotel projects in process in Saranac Lake
The drive from SL to Tupper is easier than having to go all the way thru LP to get to WF

If Tupper was revived you would see more lodging offerings in Tupper open up for sure.  Would probably be more modest in size and the cost for lodging

Most prospective patrons would stay in, or at least drive through, Long Lake.

Benny Profane wrote

Does Gore even have a hotel?

There has been approval for a couple of lodge hotel/condo buildings next to the Ski Bowl at Gore for over 10 years. They still do not exist. But I am sure a fixed up BT will generate a massive amount of building.

I really am rooting for BT to reopen in some form but when I see the hotel talk, I have to shake my head. Seems very unrealistic to put it kindly. Z, Is your vision that people will drive up from the city, rent a place in Saranac and then the group will split up with one car full of expert skiers going to WF and another car full of beginners and intermediates heading to BT? Also seems somewhat unrealistic to me.