Petition for ORDA to take over Big Tupper

campgottagopee wrote

DomB wrote

 

Long Island (or Westchester/NYC metro) tax dollars pay for all the roads up north.  

You guys are doing a shitty job then

ROFLMAO

TheGreatAbyss wrote

There's an assumption by the Tupper pushers that NYS is losing money on the 3 downhill areas.  As I posted earlier I'm not so sure that's true, at least for Gore and Belle.  They may very well be in the black when all 3 are aggregated.  Adding BT could/would put them in the red

Nah, it will just keep them in the red

https://poststar.com/news/local/report-orda-operating-at-a-loss-of-nearly-million/article_5b42f270-472e-5031-b17e-74af60660140.html

Operating is one thing.  All of the NY mtns capex is added on top, and that isn't in the math.

I don't like the fact that NY bullied private enterprise in the past, and it does seem odd to expand their role in light of that.

But the Adks are going — probably to the end of time — with WF, Gore and McCauley. I'd be stunned to see a new private mountain, ever. So adding BT to this doesn't really change too much, except bring some of that money to the most depressed part of the park.

I still need to be convinced. We're considering getting the guys behind the petition on the record. One thing I'm pretty sure of, they are serious local skiers.

I also think the state has to work hard to promote all four ski hills in the Cats, because in my book, they are on probation.

I have to give NY credit for the NYSERDA snow gun program, that was excellent.

campgottagopee wrote

Nah, it will just keep them in the red

https://poststar.com/news/local/report-orda-operating-at-a-loss-of-nearly-million/article_5b42f270-472e-5031-b17e-74af60660140.html

 It wants me to answer some stupid survey, care to share the text?   Also I didn't say ORDA as a whole might be in the black, I was just talking about Gore and Belle specifically.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

One of the reasons that you are...

Not gonna bite, despite the myriad  of falsehoods in your post.  

All I say is this thread is a week old.  We’ve been talking about Z advocating for the State picking up BT for WEEKS.  In all of that time I’ve done nothing but consider the objective facts and other’s views, and not once have I interjected my own personal preferences into the discussion, my own narrow thinking as you call it........UNTIL Z asked “why would anyone be against more skiing availability (funded by taxpayer dollars)?”  So finally I make one side comment about my personal preferences or priorities (when that is all that Z’s position is, in the face of the objective facts) and THAT’S when you choose to jump me?

Perhaps you should *try* to be a little less obvious about the scary, demented hard on you have for me!

Z wrote

Why not give Tupper a chance?  It will be way less costly than Bell.  No Gondi going in there.  Just bring it back to how it was.

If you bring it back how it was, history says you'll enter the same fate.

As I understand it, the various towns own the facilities, but ORDA manages them.  What if it were the other way around where ORDA owned and funded Big Tupper, but it was managed by Tupper Lake?  Presumably locals would know what works best for the area.  I mean, locals are your primary target market, not people from downstate.

TheGreatAbyss wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Nah, it will just keep them in the red

https://poststar.com/news/local/report-orda-operating-at-a-loss-of-nearly-million/article_5b42f270-472e-5031-b17e-74af60660140.html

 It wants me to answer some stupid survey, care to share the text?   Also I didn't say ORDA as a whole might be in the black, I was just talking about Gore and Belle specifically.

I hate it when it does that.

 It basically says that ORDA is operating at nearly a 10 million loss. I'd be willing to bet that doesn't even include the 10's of millions put into the venues on a annual basis.

Point is who the hell cares if there is  a few more pounds in the anchor

Harvey wrote

 

I still need to be convinced. We're considering getting the guys behind the petition on the record. One thing I'm pretty sure of, they are serious local skiers.

 

Great idea Harv. I'd like to hear their take on the sustainability of BT should ORDA jump in. I know it's an extremely small sample but the handful of peeps I talked to in Long Lake a week ago sure do miss that place.

I think I probably lost track of some key details along the way. Maybe somebody can bring me up to speed with some short answers:

1. who owns the ski area currently? The guy from PA? I understand they owe taxes but I haven’t heard there anywhere near being seized by the state. Is that correct?

2. Is ACR dead for good? Seems like it is but has everybody involved admitted that?

3. I guess I’m just kind of curious what the truth on the ground actually is up there and who still has a claim on the place.

campgottagopee wrote

Point is who the hell cares if there is  a few more pounds in the anchor

Ok, BernieBoomer!

JTG4eva! wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Point is who the hell cares if there is  a few more pounds in the anchor

Ok, BernieBoomer!

HA!

OK After those 25k people come to the mountain how do get the other 200k you need just to come close to breaking even.  Someone mentioned a hill down south that went out close to the city that was close to Tuppers Size.  Now if Orda wanted to take a look at that I think you could make a very good argument for it.  Think Blue mountain.. Dump in state of the art snowmaking so you can open it up in a day or two with lights and boom.  Instant million per year ski visits.

There are a ton of local ski hills which have gone by the wayside. Should ORDA take over Scotch Valley as well? That would make more sense - those towns in NY fly over country (Albany to Buffalo) need some love too.

PeeTex wrote

There are a ton of local ski hills which have gone by the wayside. Should ORDA take over Scotch Valley as well? That would make more sense - those towns in NY fly over country (Albany to Buffalo) need some love too.

Yes!  The N.Y. Cirque!

tjf1967 wrote

Someone mentioned a hill down south that went out close to the city that was close to Tuppers Size.

Sterling Forest/Tuxedo Ridge, maybe.    Only 400 vert and 7 trails, 100 acres...but it skid bigger!  They used to hold Sectionals there back in my (shitty) HS racing days.  Small as it is, it would expose greater numbers of new skiers to the sport, better supporting the ORDA mission.

More grown in, but on google maps you can still see where the trails were at the Dutchess Ski Area on Beacon Mountain, further north than Tuxedo Ridge.  Double the very, double the trails when it was operating, and right off the Metro North (here comes the ski train).  Scenic Hudson has been trying to revive the cog railway there for years.  Lots of benefit the State could throw money at there.

Or lots of other places, being the point.  But they won’t, like they probably shouldn’t at BT.

TheGreatAbyss wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Nah, it will just keep them in the red

https://poststar.com/news/local/report-orda-operating-at-a-loss-of-nearly-million/article_5b42f270-472e-5031-b17e-74af60660140.html

 It wants me to answer some stupid survey, care to share the text?   Also I didn't say ORDA as a whole might be in the black, I was just talking about Gore and Belle specifically.

Oh man, I love those surveys. On some database, I'm a Michael Jackson loving dude who loves traveling to Hong Kong annualy and eats fast food twice a day. Go for it and have fun.

I just looked. The petition has over 6000 signatures now.

It says they owe over 500k in taxes. I wonder how long it took to accumulate that much- Seems pretty high but not sure how much property that includes

PeeTex wrote

There are a ton of local ski hills which have gone by the wayside. Should ORDA take over Scotch Valley as well? That would make more sense - those towns in NY fly over country (Albany to Buffalo) need some love too.

Funny you picked that one --- previously known as Deer Run as well. Previous owners of Greek Peak sent that place into bankruptcy as well.

tjf1967 wrote

OK After those 25k people come to the mountain how do get the other 200k you need just to come close to breaking even..

Small ski areas need 225k skiers a year to break even?

You sure about that?

IDK what's plattkill get...and from what I understand he could use a few more skiers.