The Snowmaking/Operations Outlook Thread

The Wilmington Trail will be open the 1st weekend in February. RACK IT.

I am with drifter!

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

The Wilmington Trail will be open the 1st weekend in February. RACK IT.

Brings back memories.

My life is complete

snoloco wrote

I don't like the idea of having an entire lift section with only natural trails, because you can't spend millions on a lift and have it not being used consistently, and you want to be able to put that extra capacity to use during busy weekends and holidays.

I have to say that some of your posts irritate the shit out of me, saying that if a ski area doesn't do this or that and get things open by your own personal standards just reeks of entitlement and a lack of understanding all of the factors that go into managements decision making process and many other factors involved. I also don't like the words you use to describe your dislike of a mountain operational efforts, words like pathetic, disgrace and embarrassment kind of make you sound like a dick.

That being said, I feel the same way about the quoted above or at least that's how I would want a ski area to be if I was creating/managing one.

Lets take the Castlerock pod at Sugarbush for an example. Wouldn't it make sense to put snowmaking on Castlerock Run, Middle Earth and maybe Cotillion while keeping Lift Line and Rumble natural? Now before the purists get all up and arms why not cut one more natural, narrow and twisting classic NE trail and cut two glades on there. Wouldn't that be a win win for everyone? Then if you decided to upgrade the chair you could better justify the investment.

I like to think that you can maintain the character of an area but still make it more sustainable and reliable.

JasonWx wrote

What about your main pump blows a bearing , 3 guys from the crew went out drinking and are hung over..That's just 2 things that can and will go wrong on a given day..

here's a picture of the pumps at WF




There is no such thing as a "main pump" when it comes to any legitimate resort.  Whiteface has eight pumps, and eight compressors. Compressed air is the limiting factor, so if one pump goes down, it's not a big deal. You're only running all eight pumps if the temps are below 0. I'd be surprised honestly if they still use those horizontal ones because the turbine looks to small to generate high pressure needed to run the low-e guns. Most likely they just use the 4 newer vertical ones in the back.

There are also 3 additional pumps at the top of Victoria to boost the pressure to the top of the LWF summit, the real summit and Lookout.

+1

I guess you're right about guys from the crew now showing up or getting drunk, but that's where the long term automation plan comes in.

This is an old article, but the ideas are out there. http://saratogaskier.blogspot.com/2010/11/whiteface-snowmaking-tour-11242010.html 

Anyone want to guess where these bad boys are located?

raisingarizona wrote

I have to say that some of your posts irritate the shit out of me, saying that if a ski area doesn't do this or that and get things open by your own personal standards just reeks of entitlement and a lack of understanding all of the factors that go into managements decision making process and many other factors involved. I also don't like the words you use to describe your dislike of a mountain operational efforts, words like pathetic, disgrace and embarrassment kind of make you sound like a dick.

Yeah, I can be a bit of an asshole on the internet, but aren't we all at times?

I look at terrain expansions from a ROI perspective.   You gotta use the most expensive infrastructure to make it worthwhile to add it.  It's a waste to add a lift, but not do the necessary snowmaking upgrades to open it on a full time basis.

I also put a large emphasis on being able to see all areas of the resort during my visit.  Just a personal preference of mine.

I use "pathetic, embarrassment, and disgrace" sparingly to describe major ski area management screw ups.  Like not making snow during perfect temps, or failing to open large portions of the mountain when everyone else does.

Whiteface has now officially announced plans to make snow on Lookout, so we can really end this discussion and move onto other things.  I'm sure I speak for many here.  The petition comes out of my signature line when I see snowmaking on the report or in person on Wilmington Trail.

Wood stream?

Sno sounds like someone who grew up endlessly standing in long lift lines. A couple years at Face should cure him.

Snowballs wrote

Sno sounds like someone who grew up endlessly standing in long lift lines.

What else would you expect from someone who skied at Hunter and Mountain Creek (and before that Mount Peter when they refused to run more than 1 lift most of the time).

Also add frustrating racing closures almost daily of the best terrain at Mountain Creek.  IMO, Whiteface seems to have racing down to a science, where they can be a premier racing venue without it being disruptive to public skiing.  Gore does not do a very good job at this.

Hahaha. I knew it ! Face will cure you. You can ski you ass off there.

JasonWx wrote

What about your main pump blows a bearing

If I was a resort manager, I'd view snowmaking pumps and compressors the same as airplanes when it comes to maintenence.  Having them break when they'really supposed be be running (during snowmaking temps) is completely and totally unacceptable.

If a lift goes down in a big way, they call Doppelmayr or Poma in to fix it, and 9 times out of 10 it's back up within a week.  Everything back to normal.

If a major piece of the snowmaking plant dies, that cascades throughout the rest of the year reducing terrain availability and the capability to resurface after a thaw.  With sometimes limited windows to make snow, the system has to be 100% ready to go for when the temps are right.

Sno, your threads would be more interesting if you could come down to earth once in a while. You would bankrupt a mountain pretty quick the way you want to spend their money

Brownski wrote

Wood stream?

Not even close. I wish.

That's a picture of inside the barely noticeable shack just below the pond at Plattekill. They can do 800 PSI and about 500 GPM each. Very, very impressive for a mountain like Platty. If only they could get a bigger pond, their snowmaking capability would bury every trail on the mountain 8' deep.

Ethan, you and Sno sure seem to know your snowmaking/lifts. It brings something to the forum that was not there before. Thanks guys !

I seem to know more about lifts while Ethan knows more about snowmaking.  A lift trivia question for all of you is guess how many total sheave wheels are the towers of the Whiteface gondola?

snoloco wrote

I seem to know more about lifts while Ethan knows more about snowmaking.  A lift trivia question for all of you is guess how many total sheave wheels are the towers of the Whiteface gondola?

I know this one ....

The correct answer is "Who gives a shit?"

Face4Me wrote

I know this one ....

The correct answer is "Who gives a shit?"


Now that's some funny shit...Thanks for a good laugh guys