What's next?

Brownski wrote

raisingarizona wrote

Seriously. Before everyone was talking about climate change which, let’s be honest was a result of economy. Now everyone wants the economy back!

Time to rethink our values here.

Have you considered how much suffering you’re prescribing? We could be on the verge of a Great Depression here. That will have an enormous human toll. It sounds like you’re saying “here’s our chance to use this huge tragedy so that we can make people we disagree with act the way we thought they should act anyway.” Is that what you mean?

Your question leaves me scratching my head. I don’t understand what you’re asking.

I’m just wondering if we don’t have the same benefits as other modern developed nations and it’s hurting us. Don’t get me wrong, im not anti capitalism but American capitalism may be a little toxic.

And yeah, nothing is free but let’s be honest here, the wealthiest top 5% are whore-ding the wealth and most are generally not paying a fair amount of taxes.

I’m not saying this is or isn’t how it is, I’m merely asking questions now and I think we all should be.

raisingarizona wrote

Brownski wrote

raisingarizona wrote

Seriously. Before everyone was talking about climate change which, let’s be honest was a result of economy. Now everyone wants the economy back!

Time to rethink our values here.

Have you considered how much suffering you’re prescribing? We could be on the verge of a Great Depression here. That will have an enormous human toll. It sounds like you’re saying “here’s our chance to use this huge tragedy so that we can make people we disagree with act the way we thought they should act anyway.” Is that what you mean?

Your question leaves me scratching my head. I don’t understand what you’re asking.

I’m just wondering if we don’t have the same benefits as other modern developed nations and it’s hurting us. Don’t get me wrong, im not anti capitalism but American capitalism may be a little toxic.

And yeah, nothing is free but let’s be honest here, the wealthiest top 5% are whore-ding the wealth and most are generally not paying a fair amount of taxes.

I’m not saying this is or isn’t how it is, I’m merely asking questions now and I think we all should be.

You were questioning why we want the economy back. We want it back because the economy pays our bills. A smaller economy makes it harder to pay our bills (not me- we collectively- everybody).

Brownski wrote

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Brownski wrote

Have you considered how much suffering you’re prescribing? We could be on the verge of a Great Depression here. That will have an enormous human toll. It sounds like you’re saying “here’s our chance to use this huge tragedy so that we can make people we disagree with act the way we thought they should act anyway.” Is that what you mean?

Brownski, do you think the economic suffering is a greater concern than the pandemic (and associated deaths?)

Not in the short term obviously but I think it’s possible long term. I don’t think it’s an either/or thing but poverty is a big killer too.

But poverty doesn't have to be a killer. We just gave everyone $1200. We could just keep giving people money. Inflation is at record lows (deflation is now a concern!).

We can keep sending checks until unemployment goes back down. In fact, that's going to be what we do for the recently unemployed & jobless.

And the idea that it's not basically "free" right now is a little wild. The government borrowing at 0% to pay millions of people a bunch of dollars that get recirculated back into the economy is Keynes 101. When people aren't spending & businesses aren't spending, the only thing keeping the economy from going to shit is government spending.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Brownski wrote

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Brownski wrote

Have you considered how much suffering you’re prescribing? We could be on the verge of a Great Depression here. That will have an enormous human toll. It sounds like you’re saying “here’s our chance to use this huge tragedy so that we can make people we disagree with act the way we thought they should act anyway.” Is that what you mean?

Brownski, do you think the economic suffering is a greater concern than the pandemic (and associated deaths?)

Not in the short term obviously but I think it’s possible long term. I don’t think it’s an either/or thing but poverty is a big killer too.

But poverty doesn't have to be a killer. We just gave everyone $1200. We could just keep giving people money. Inflation is at record lows (deflation is now a concern!).

We can keep sending checks until unemployment goes back down. In fact, that's going to be what we do for the recently unemployed & jobless.

And the idea that it's not basically "free" right now is a little wild. The government borrowing at 0% to pay millions of people a bunch of dollars that get recirculated back into the economy is Keynes 101. When people aren't spending & businesses aren't spending, the only thing keeping the economy from going to shit is government spending.

You’re totally right. History proves it. Thanks for straightening me out on that.

Well that’s not what I meant exactly.

What I do know is that if this civilization continues as it has it’s going to be the end of us at some point. Our consumption isn’t sustainable for the long term.

Brownski wrote

You’re totally right. History proves it. Thanks for straightening me out on that.

I know you're saying this in a joking way, but really, governments have run deficits for my entire lifetime with no real side effects (except for that brief Clinton surplus).

You might need a history lesson yourself:
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/the-hyperinflation-hype-why-the-us-can-never-be-weimar/254715/

nepa wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Can you imagine if booze wasn't essential? Holy crap what a shit show we'd have on our hands.

You said it Camp... I imagined the same thing.  Last month, I bought enough weed to smoke-up a small army.

Man, good to see you post again. If I asked this before forgive me but how are things in your neck of the woods? Has the covid stayed down in Seattle mostly?

Harvey wrote

both sides wrote

“here’s our chance to use this huge tragedy so that we can make people we disagree with act the way we thought they should act anyway.”

It’s like you’re reading my mind

Wow, Brownski, your question was genius in a way.  Nothing like separating the "I want my mommy" crowd from the "let's get back to work" crowd.

"Huh? What do you mean by real life never ended for those deemed essential businesses. You can't truly mean that, if so, you'd better look around. Shit has changed and it doesn't matter if you're working or not."  Well, let's see...today I drove an hour and replaced a controller in a sewer pump station.  When you flush your toilet "it" goes somewhere, magically.  Then I went to upgrade some telemetry equipment at a water utility.  No, life hasn't changed a bit.  Love driving around w/out traffic - I'll give you that.

"My buddy said it the best. People are getting their lattes delivered to their houses now, we're all fucked."  Let me translate this - "I'm okay with some poor shlub going out in the public and risking his health to support himself as long as I don't have to".  What kind of wuss-man orders a latte, and what kind of double wuss-man has it delivered???

Come on, people, all we really want is some hope that there will be a ski season this year.  Well, this will probably be my last post - have to work in Delaware on Wed-Thur and then up to NJ to help my daughter move.  No way I can survive this LOL!!!

Brownski wrote

nepa wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Can you imagine if booze wasn't essential? Holy crap what a shit show we'd have on our hands.

You said it Camp... I imagined the same thing.  Last month, I bought enough weed to smoke-up a small army.

Man, good to see you post again. If I asked this before forgive me but how are things in your neck of the woods? Has the covid stayed down in Seattle mostly?

Thanks Brownski!  Seattle seems to be doing ok.  East side of the mountains have been spared for the most part.  That said, my wife works in healthcare.  I listened in on the "town-hall" meeting for our local hospital system today.  Although, the ICU is currently full, the leadership team seemed pretty confident in the preparations.  Just to give you an idea of the scale, it's a 10 bed ICU serving an audience of 200,000 people.  There are still significant risks associated with capacity.  Also, there is some dissent among the staff as it has been announced that fairly significant pay-cuts are now an inevitability.

I've been pretty busy.  I volunteer at a food-bank.  A few weeks ago we needed to transition our operation to the local hockey arena.  Demand for assistance has skyrocketed while donations have plummeted.  We used to have a 2 week turn-over cycle in our storage facility.  Currently, our cycle is running around 5 days.  People are a bit on edge, but for the most part people seem to be getting along pretty good.

There is still a ton of snow above 5K.  The scenery this time of year out here is pretty spectacular.  I ride my bike up to the ski area often, but haven't seen too many people earning turns.  The community has made it pretty clear about the need for EMS resource conservation.  The forest service has been pretty clear on the closures around here as well.

onscott wrote

Well, this will probably be my last post - have to work in Delaware on Wed-Thur and then up to NJ to help my daughter move.  No way I can survive this LOL!!!

I have a feeling you’ll make it. Keep on keepin on.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielaraya/2020/03/31/the-revolution-after-the-crisis/

A bigger context for Brownski's thread.

I agree the world is out of balance and on an unsustainable path with regard to wealth distribution and environment.

It makes sense that it would take a major shock to change the path.

If we are going to survive we're going to have to treat each other with respect. Maybe we could start right here in this thread.

Been rollin with Dilbert's Dad. He's been on the "money" on stuff being widely discussed. Comes out with a new vid everyday sometimes 2.  Has a hot girlfriend and was valedictorian in Windham NY not too far from Plattekill's territory so he has that going for him, just sayin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQA61VbUtyg

Another good recent discussion of current events: Joe Rogan and Dan Crenshaw

Dan Crenshaw is a politician and former United States Navy SEAL officer serving as the U.S. Representative for Texas’s 2nd congressional district since 2019. His new book "Fortitude: American Resilience in the Outrage Era"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-DiuM5KsPM

nepa wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Can you imagine if booze wasn't essential? Holy crap what a shit show we'd have on our hands.

You said it Camp... I imagined the same thing.  Last month, I bought enough weed to smoke-up a small army.

Luckily for me my garden produced incredibly last year. 👍

onscott wrote

Wow, Brownski, your question was genius in a way.  Nothing like separating the "I want my mommy" crowd from the "let's get back to work" crowd.

"Huh? What do you mean by real life never ended for those deemed essential businesses. You can't truly mean that, if so, you'd better look around. Shit has changed and it doesn't matter if you're working or not."  Well, let's see...today I drove an hour and replaced a controller in a sewer pump station.  When you flush your toilet "it" goes somewhere, magically.  Then I went to upgrade some telemetry equipment at a water utility.  No, life hasn't changed a bit.  Love driving around w/out traffic - I'll give you that.

"My buddy said it the best. People are getting their lattes delivered to their houses now, we're all fucked."  Let me translate this - "I'm okay with some poor shlub going out in the public and risking his health to support himself as long as I don't have to".  What kind of wuss-man orders a latte, and what kind of double wuss-man has it delivered???

Come on, people, all we really want is some hope that there will be a ski season this year.  Well, this will probably be my last post - have to work in Delaware on Wed-Thur and then up to NJ to help my daughter move.  No way I can survive this LOL!!!

Just so I understand you correctly, you are staying life hasn't changed for you one bit. Is that right?

onscott wrote

Wow, Brownski, your question was genius in a way.  Nothing like separating the "I want my mommy" crowd from the "let's get back to work" crowd.

Yes, clearly there are only two ways to think about it, and "I want my mommy" is one of them

What happened to your first prediction, man?

onscott wrote

  That said here is what I believe will happen:

1) President will minimize and/or fire Dr. Gloom (Fauci) and Dr. Doom (Birx).  My guess is this will happen tomorrow..

Harvey wrote

A bigger context for Brownski's thread.

I agree the world is out of balance and on an unsustainable path with regard to wealth distribution and environment.

It makes sense that it would take a major shock to change the path.

If we are going to survive we're going to have to treat each other with respect. Maybe we could start right here in this thread.

Respect gets respect.

And, going back to this:

Brownski wrote

Harvey wrote

both sides wrote

“here’s our chance to use this huge tragedy so that we can make people we disagree with act the way we thought they should act anyway.”

It’s like you’re reading my mind

Sure, *You* think that we were on an unstable path with regard to wealth distribution & the environment, but other people don't. Why are you trying to push that liberal propaganda? You should listen to Dilbert's Creator and this guy.

(We're all just having a conversation here. I think it better if we don't police tone and we just talk, but it's your site, so do what you want)

campgottagopee wrote

nepa wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Can you imagine if booze wasn't essential? Holy crap what a shit show we'd have on our hands.

You said it Camp... I imagined the same thing.  Last month, I bought enough weed to smoke-up a small army.

Luckily for me my garden produced incredibly last year. 👍

When I lived over in the Susquehanna metro-area I used to get good results indoors.  I tried outdoor the first season I lived up there and had problems with mold.  The property was heavily wooded and north facing... a bit too close to the river.
Much better for deer hunting than any type of cultivation

From an economic perspective, I don't think we've seen anything yet.  I think there are some inevitable systemic issues that have yet to reveal themselves.  Our nation is awash in both private and public debt.  Unsecured consumer debt us the next bomb... it's been primed by a large percentage of our population living beyond their means for the past decade.  It's not just the consumer... many businesses have acted irresponsibly in the all too common lust for unfettered growth.  As always, at the end of a boom, large companies tend to be very irresponsible when using debt to finance growth.  The leveraged corporate debt market has doubled in size over the past 5 years.  Over the next quarter, default rates will skyrocket.  Reserve requirements for banks are still woefully inadequate in comparison to the amount of outstanding obligations.  I believe there is another bank bailout on the horizon.  I'm not sure where this money will come from, but without it, the wheels of banking will come off the economic machine pretty quickly.

Obviously, this is an evolving situation with out a visible solution at the current moment.  I am a landlord.  My tenants are living rent free as long as they need to.  They've been great tenants... it's the least I can do.  Good tenants are hard to find.