What's next?

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Respect gets respect.

MC, I think Harvey was looking for  a change in the status quo.  Don’t worry Harvey, I’ll be turning the other cheek.

RA, if I might steal a turn of phrase from MC (thanks, honestly), that article was......interesting.  While I don’t know much about the author or the analyst from The Guardian whom he quotes, it does have a very Liberal tone and comes off as a bit alarmist (I’m not sure anyone was ever realistically estimating 2m US deaths).  That said, if the conclusion is along the lines that this event could be the new Renaissance (better word than Revolution in this case, IMHO), that’s an interesting discussion.  

My daughter (21 years old and views many things from an artistic perspective, to go along with her Business/Marketing Communications degree) and I were having that discussion at the start of this whole crisis, that she wonders if this event won’t lead to a new era of creativity and art and whatnot.  The Renaissance Era did follow the Black Death and that Renaissance ushered in a new economic and political landscape, in addition to the arts and such.

I’m not a Renaissance Era scholar, but at once it seems the Renaissance Era brought in secular Liberal political thought (to replace theologically-driven Feudalism) and Capitalist economic systems (primarily via increased trade).  If the much maligned (in the article) Capitalist Money Hoarding Boomers of today represent the Feudal Lords before the Renaissance then maybe we will see a similar shift of political thought toward the left.  My daughter is developing her own political ideologies, and she’s woke on the subject, and she has friends who consider themselves Leftist and not Liberal, as the Liberal Party (DNC) of today is too centrist for them to identify with, but I digress.  I don’t see the world moving on from a Capitalist economy, but one much more dependent upon automation (a new Industrial Revolution, if you will) seems more than plausible (and as my daughter thinks, that could free up a lot of time for the Arts).

Will CV-19 be the wake up call that shapes the world of decades from now?  Such a sentiment would provide hope for a World in which hope is in short supply for the many.  At the same time, current political and economic systems seem much more mature and sophisticated (I know, I know...that seems laughable looking at the Market over the last month/year, combined with the prospects of Trump-Biden Presidential debates, but still...) than the Feudal System that The Renaissance ushered out, which will make them much harder to scrub out, if that’s what has to happen.

I’ve talked about this with my kids and others.  We’ve (gens X, Y, Z) all studied the history books, but up to this point none of us have lived through anything that has been/will be notable in the history books of tomorrow.  There will be CV-19 question on the APUSH exams in a decade.

While it seems (at least now) like change has to come, is inevitable, I have a hard time seeing how we actually get from Point A to Point B.  The kind of change we are talking about will require visionaries and true leaders...and I just don’t see the likes of Trump/Biden getting it done.  Who emerges from the fray, and when, may be the most important question of our time.

Nice! Now theres some interesting thoughts. You and NEPA just brought it!

The article definitely has a liberal tone to it. I’m not a fan of left or right biased articles but it has some interesting enough points that I thought it was worthy of discussion.

JTG4eva! wrote

While it seems (at least now) like change has to come, is inevitable, I have a hard time seeing how we actually get from Point A to Point B.  The kind of change we are talking about will require visionaries and true leaders...and I just don’t see the likes of Trump/Biden getting it done.  Who emerges from the fray, and when, may be the most important question of our time.

I don't see wholesale change happening anytime soon. I think ideas like "Seize the Wealth!" and "Protect the Environment" and "Automate jobs so we can have 15-hour work weeks and more time for the arts" are great, but they are going to run into a wall of people who think like this:

Brownski wrote

As much fun as the revolution is gonna be, I'm more wondering how long it'll be before I can reschedule my kids' dentist appointments. For that matter, when re hospitals gonna be able to take non-Covid, non- emergency patients?

People crave structure & routine. And the capitalist system was doing a good job of providing that (at least to the kind of people who populate regional ski forums).

I think there will be some changes, but they will be more in line with "tweaks to the current system" as opposed to "revolution". That's why the stock market keeps going up. Traders are betting that everyone can get back to money making pretty quickly.

Mostly, I agree with mm. It seems ridiculous to go to the hospital and have to pay to get treated for a pandemic, but it always seemed ridiculous to me that people would have to pay for healthcare anyway (it should be covered by the taxes we pay, just like we cover the healthcare for old people, poor people, the military, and everyone who works for the federal government). If nothing else, we should come out of this with single payer healthcare and guaranteed sick leave at every job. (JTG might be right that Biden won't push far enough here. He came out with a plan lower the Medicare age to 60. Gee thanks, old man, can you spare it? How about lowering it to 0?).

I also fear the tracking that mm mentioned. They can see who is being compliant right now and who isn't. That doesn't bode well for the future.

JTG4eva! wrote

 comes off as a bit alarmist (I’m not sure anyone was ever realistically estimating 2m US deaths)..

This was my problem with the article, too. It was written at the end of March and some of the predictions already seem wrong.

Who knows......

Maybe by this time next year the world wide numbers may come close to that, especially if getting the economy back up and running prematurely sets of second and third waves.

JTG4eva! wrote

I’ll be turning the other cheek.

I'd consider it a personal favor.

More than a few people have checked out because of thinly disguised attempts to inject politics.

If RA's article were to pan out, we may just have passed through the last season of NYSB as we know it.  Obviously I hope not. If it was the case, would be cool to go out with some dignity.

Back, a little closer to on topic, this such a cool idea for a thread, with a completely open ended premise. An chance to see what people think, and who thinks big.  While RA's article gave me chills, it got me thinking about the possibilities.  

After reading that article, I came into work today thinking I wouldn't pull the trigger on the SBA PPP program. There is a lot about it that I don't like. Ultimately I feel I have to go through with it. We discussed it with the staff yesterday and I don't think it would be fair to throw it out there and then yank it back.  Just too cruel.

Harvey wrote

JTG4eva! wrote

I’ll be turning the other cheek.

I'd consider it a personal favor.

More than a few people have checked out because of thinly disguised attempts to inject politics.

No prob.  In fairness to make me, I don’t think I inject much political noise.  The nonsense MC and I childishly quibble over is most often related to fact (or lack there of) and opinion on apolitical stuff, I think.  But I can do better, that’s not what you built your site for.

Harvey wrote

After reading that article, I came into work today thinking I wouldn't pull the trigger on the SBA PPP program. There is a lot about it that I don't like. Ultimately I feel I have to go through with it. We discussed it with the staff yesterday and I don't think it would be fair to throw it out there and then yank it back.  Just too cruel.

I admittedly don’t know anything about it, but what about the program don’t you like?  If you don’t take the money someone else will, and you are taking it to improve the lives of your employees and the general economy in the short term.  Sure, it helps your business, but that isn’t the primary reason you’d take it, right?  Seems like refusing the offered assistance would be the equivalent of taking some moral political high ground.  Just curious as to what made you consider declining.  If the answer to that question is too political just skip it.

Harvey wrote

.  
After reading that article, I came into work today thinking I wouldn't pull the trigger on the SBA PPP program..

Jesus Christ.

You were going to make major life decisions based on one article written by someone you don't know that contains several false claims?

You need to allow politics talk to save you from yourself.

America: The Fairwell Tour

^^^^
Written by one of the authors mentioned in the article.  Read this one last year.  Tells our story through a pretty unfiltered lens.  

Look at that guy's other book titles.

He certainly found a niche.

Once again, how can we discuss large scale societal changes and world views without addressing politics?

There are some ad hominem attacks that probably cross a line, but seriously..... how? Political will, up to or including outright revolution, will be necessary to make change.

People that fall away from a regional ski forum because they can’t help but click on an OT thread, yet don’t like their world view being questioned? Talk about privilege!  

It wasn't really the content of the article itself. PM sent.

It is possible to be an intensely political person and express your views without shitting on others who don't agree. I know this for a fact.

You'll never convince someone on the other side of the aisle to change their opinion.  They have to come to it themselves. Raising your voice or "proving them wrong" does nothing.

In the last week I found myself agreeing with two political (public) figures who I disagree with profoundly on almost everything. It wasn't because they convinced me to see their side.  I came to it myself.

Harvey wrote

You'll never convince someone on the other side of the aisle to change their opinion.  They have to come to it themselves..

Aren't you sort of in the advertising business? Why are you pretending that people can't be convinced of things? That's sorta what advertising is, right? Convincing people that they need an item? Or that they are the kind of person who'd vacation here, or whatever?

If nobody can ever be convinced of anything, companies & candidates are wasting billions of advertising dollars.

Great sports, world and local history story:
https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/shows/sports-detectives/miracle-on-ice-flag/1004307/3432376

There's an intro if ya want to watch that, but just sign in (clicky) with your appropriate provider to watch the whole Smithsonian channel produced show.
What happened to the flag that signified one of the greatest moments in American sports history?

I picked up my Easter dinner from the fellow who gave our goalie, Jim Craig, the flag.

America was going through a "tough time" then, and a bunch of college boys beat the Soviets "pro" team. Then won the gold medal.

That's about as much politics I'm good for. Stay safe and strong skiers. Don't forget we got Mikaela too now.

We find that the most effective messages build people up.

It's also about understanding your audience. We don't reach out to die hard bass fisherman and try to sell them ballroom dancing.

What I do is behavioral. In search, if you are doing it correctly, you are delivering exactly what qualified prospects are looking for, right when they are ready to buy.  It's less about convincing and more about delivering relevant messages.

Harvey wrote

It is possible to be an intensely political person and express your views without shitting on others who don't agree. I know this for a fact.

It’s possible to be quite knowledgeable and passionate about sex and be a virgin or a eunuch I guess too.

Maybe a regional ski forum is not the place for big ideas? But if we are going to talk about them here, there has to be a space for discussion of the political viability and vision to get us there. Politics is dirty and ugly, but essential.

Also, there is no “aisle” out here in the real world. Maybe you live in a totally monoculture/gerrymandered place, but I don’t and don’t think most people do. We are enmeshed with each other.....and there is room for more than two viewpoints. The frustration with our current offerings for President is evidence that we need to move beyond our two party, whatever it takes to keep the “other” guys out, system.

I have never lived in a house with only one political party represented. That means when I was growing up, when I was married, and single with my son. I find that it makes for great learning experiences, if you are willing to listen.

What have I learned? That I can be liberal as the day is long and at the same time defend gun rights. My son can lay down the facts like you wouldn't believe. He should have been a lawyer.

How's that for a dichotomy?

WP

I think that’s how most families are. The internet makes certain things worse

Harvey wrote

.  It's less about convincing and more about delivering relevant messages.

Consider my posts to be that, then.