Whiteface Conditions (2016 - 2017)

Agreed, there probably isn't any significant avy risk in there, but you never know.  In .5 on Sunday I stopped here, just to see how hard that yellow ice in the foreground was, to get over and score a few more untracked turns below the ice fall.

I poked at the ice in one spot, the ice was thin, pole broke through easily.  Poked it a little higher, it was firmer, so I poked it again harder.  Pole didn't break through, but a large pizza size area of the ice collapsed with a bit of a whompf.  Not a good sound.  Sure, it was just some surface ice, but I didn't linger.  Didn't like the thought of a layer of ice like that buried.

It was legitimately tough in there this weekend.  Without Silver status a lot of people would have gone in there that would have had a lot of trouble.  Can you think of a better way to control access than the beacon/shovel/probe requirement, assuming you agree they should control access?

Random Slide observations from the weekend.....There are a bunch of cocky, young, a-hole acting (hey, maybe they are nice kids and just act like a-holes) NYSEF kids on the hill.  Probably many more solid kids, but some that definitely act like d-bags.  So in the Summit Quad line these kids are talking Slides shit.  "Oh, Slide 1 is the best!  Everyone ski Slide 1". Yuk, yuk, yuk....laugh....all smug shits and giggles.  Passing the chalk board the leader points to beacon/shovel/probe and says "no, that's not required", along with more smug shits and giggles.  As my brother and I dig out the beacons to put them on under our jackets those smug kids got absolutely no love from Patrol at the entrance!  It was kind of funny given how smug and cocksure they were at the bottom.

On Saturday, after a couple of patrollers convinced my brother and I there was no way they were opening that day, there was a dude there at the top of Lookout pissed because he purchased a beacon just so he could get in the Slides this weekend.  Hope he got in there at some point.

Beacons all the time!

And there in lies the problem.  It is subjective based on which patroller showed up to work.  I don't know the answer but I believe there should be some thought put into how when and why a trail opens or remains closed.  If it was closed because of staffing I was happy to see Hoyts shut down while they gave people a shot at Wilmington.  IMO that pod is an important part of the mountain and it needs to be treated as such.  

I agree.  Put a fence gate activated by a beacon signal and let people have at it.  It would be a bitch to bring a sled down in there but nothing a few people could not handle...and if you are working the summit you better be able to ski the slides.

How can you be in MC's corner all the time on some fronts, and support such a 'me first, don't share the weath' attitude in other areas!  Slides to the People!  Let them have their Slides, and eat a face full of ice, too!

I'm with you, though.

They would have skied a little better if they did let the masses in.  That shit needed to be packed down.  I do like not having very many people in there.  Really I don't care how they do it..it just need to be consistent and predictable.  This guessing game pisses people off on a day when it could not get much better.

I've really come to like 2B.  You get some wide open turns, drop the rock face (the bigger your balls the further down, I'm a middle guy), some more sweet turns, then several ice falls and bands of rock to "huck" with decent landings, and then a sweet technical line down the gut at the bottom of 2, which is usually untracked (until I get there)!  It's got a bit of everything.  

But agreed, 1 is Fun!

I like the beacon/shovel/probe strategy.  I thought it made sense yesterday, based on the coverage.  I could see some people not having a good time in there.   Yes, that snow was a good amount of work in most places.  I thought the top of 1 and skier's left for most its length, skied great.  The icefall was awesome, and I even did a little billygoating and jumping...ice was soft and grippy by afternoon, if you needed it to be.   Plus, that weather yesterday....bluebird and no wind.  I love it!

They call me......



......the Glade Runner!

JTG4eva! wrote

  Without Silver status a lot of people would have gone in there that would have had a lot of trouble.  Can you think of a better way to control access than the beacon/shovel/probe requirement, assuming you agree they should control access?

The problem isnt the beacon/shovel/probe requirement when it's actually VALID, the problem is a day like yesterday, when there was not a snowball's chance in hell of an avalanche risk, yet they keep everyone out anyway either due to incompetence or laziness.

Lets expose the Elephant in the room.......
There is harder on-map terrain in the east than The Slides (e.g. Upper Liftline - Smuggler's Notch) and it doesn't result in thousands of wanton emergency room trips and carnage all over the hill.  

Just treat people with some respect and freedom and let them have at it if there's legitimately no avalanche risk on a day like yesterday.  I reject the notion that "a lot of people" who have no skills would attempt The Slides in much the same manner that 99.9% of people with no skills do not attempt Upper Liftline at Smuggs.  Sure, you'll have the occasional idiot, but that same idiot will simply get him/herself into trouble somewhere else on the mountain (or in the parking lot or lodge).

Well argued!

 You cant go on the back side of Lone Peak without gear no matter what the conditions.  The trying to appease everyone has created a backlash.  Just make them backcountry and require the equipment. No guessing necessary.
The end.

BenedictGomez wrote

JTG4eva! wrote

  Without Silver status a lot of people would have gone in there that would have had a lot of trouble.  Can you think of a better way to control access than the beacon/shovel/probe requirement, assuming you agree they should control access?

The problem isnt the beacon/shovel/probe requirement when it's actually VALID, the problem is a day like yesterday, when there was not a snowball's chance in hell of an avalanche risk, yet they keep everyone out anyway either due to incompetence or laziness.

Lets expose the Elephant in the room.......
There is harder on-map terrain in the east than The Slides (e.g. Upper Liftline - Smuggler's Notch) and it doesn't result in thousands of wanton emergency room trips and carnage all over the hill.  

Just treat people with some respect and freedom and let them have at it if there's legitimately no avalanche risk on a day like yesterday.  I reject the notion that "a lot of people" who have no skills would attempt The Slides in much the same manner that 99.9% of people with no skills do not attempt Upper Liftline at Smuggs.  Sure, you'll have the occasional idiot, but that same idiot will simply get him/herself into trouble somewhere else on the mountain (or in the parking lot or lodge).

The big difference is you ride a lift right over a knarly trail like and you can see how difficult it will be.  The Slides don't really look that bad from the chair until you get yourself cliffed out.  A big part of skiing the Slides is route selection.  It can be a double black or much worse if you pick the wrong line.  I'm with Scotty make it shovel and probe only permanently but open it more often.  Scotty would elect to ski it more often than I would I'm sure. I've scared myself big time in there.

Backcountry gates off resort summits exist many places, including access to Federal and State lands.  In NY would that run afoul of existing laws or APA regs?

Coach Z wrote

  A big part of skiing the Slides is route selection.  It can be a double black or much worse if you pick the wrong line.  

So mitigate that risk with some simple signage like many other places do.  

I have no idea, I would think if you are leaving the ski area to hit the slides then you are out of the patrolled part of whiteface and its on you.   They require gear to hike the high peaks so I don't see the requirement as anything different.

Just go buy yourself some Avy gear.  Gapers aren't going to do that.

The alternative could be some type of certification through the snow sports school I guess.  

I think most people realize that the beacon requirement on the slides is really only in part due to any snow stability concerns...it's more just to cast an broad filter to keep people out of there that probably could have a bad time getting down.  It's not a bad strategy.  

Also, while the likelihood of any large slide would've been very low yesterday, with rising temperatures, etc, the last thing you'd want is someone having some wet-loose situation take them off their feet and over the falls.  I will say, it was evident the bulk of the beacon requirement was probably just to keep people off.

I think opening it more regularly with beacon/shovel/probe good be a good thing probably...probably would hold more snow as the season progressed.

I will say, east or west...that is some of the more technical, picking your route-type terrrain I've seen inbounds anywhere.  It's very cool stuff.

Some great pics in this thread thanks!