Whiteface Conditions (2017 - 2018)

snoloco wrote

The thing that is definitely on Kellett and anyone else in management is failure to clean up Hoyt's which they know darn well is many people's favorite trail (including mine).  No way they can say that they just COULDN'T finish it when they had since late summer basically up until Christmas to do it.  I would disagree with Harvey that he really cares about advanced skiers anymore since there are rocks poking through on two of the most important spring trails while they resurfaced Excelsior at least a dozen times.  If he personally cares about the experience for all ability levels then he's being told by Albany that advanced skiers be damned he has to make Whiteface more intermediate friendly at any and all costs.

Someday, when life presents you with an actual real problem, you are going to fucking implode.

snoloco wrote

Clearly someone decided that Whiteface had to be "high end" and intermediate friendly.  Whether that was Kellett, Pratt, Cuomo, or someone else, I have no idea.  I wouldn't mind either of these things if it didn't affect their existing product, but clearly it has and not in a good way and I'm pissed.

First, this "... if it didn't affect their existing product, but clearly it has and not in a good way ... " is nonsense. The "existing product" has been affected by the weather ... end of story.

Second, let's consider "... someone decided that Whiteface had to be "high end" and intermediate friendly."

Turn the clock ahead about 10-15 years, and let's say YOU own a ski area. You have two types of customers that you serve ...

One, is a regular customer, a college student, who comes to your mountain very frequently. Because he is such a regular customer, he buys a season pass for $489 (probably cheaper because he bought his pass at the end of the previous season). He's a college student, so he doesn't have a lot of money, so he brings his lunch with him instead of buying high priced food and drinks at your cafeteria. He buys all of his ski gear online, or at other ski shops, so he doesn't spend any money in the shop at your mountain. He's a decent skier, a legend in his own mind, so he never takes any lessons. At the end of the season, his total investment in your business is $489.

The second, is a family of five from New York City, who comes to your mountain once a year during President's week. They ski 5 days during the week. They pay about $1500 for lift tickets for the family. They also book a bunch of private lessons for mom and the kids, 3 hours each day, so that dad can have his chance to get away from his trophy wife and bratty kids, to the tune of $5000. The kids eat in the cafeteria each day, while mom and dad dine in your upscale restaurant for about $650 for the week. At the end of each day, they go up to your newly renovated bar, because it's a really nice place to hang out after a day on the slopes, and they drop another $500 over the course of the week. Of course one of the kids forgot to bring his gloves, and another one forgot her helmet, so it's into the ski shop. While there, they also decide to buy some hoodies, and t-shirts and other gear advertising your mountain. Total spent in the ski shop ... $350. Halfway through the week, dad decides that he needs to get his skis tuned, so he leaves them at your tune shop for an overnight tune-up ... mom wants hers done too ... another $100. At the end of the week, our New York City family of five has spent over $8000 at your mountain.

Now, ask yourself, AND BE HONEST, if this was YOUR business, which customer would you be more concerned about?

Children point fingers and real men run mountains.  

FTW!

HAHAHAGAHAHAGAH!

Disagreements aside, I like your style Billy.

billyymc wrote

snoloco wrote

The thing that is definitely on Kellett and anyone else in management is failure to clean up Hoyt's which they know darn well is many people's favorite trail (including mine).  No way they can say that they just COULDN'T finish it when they had since late summer basically up until Christmas to do it.  I would disagree with Harvey that he really cares about advanced skiers anymore since there are rocks poking through on two of the most important spring trails while they resurfaced Excelsior at least a dozen times.  If he personally cares about the experience for all ability levels then he's being told by Albany that advanced skiers be damned he has to make Whiteface more intermediate friendly at any and all costs.

Someday, when life presents you with an actual real problem, you are going to fucking implode.

Face4Me wrote

snoloco wrote

Clearly someone decided that Whiteface had to be "high end" and intermediate friendly.  Whether that was Kellett, Pratt, Cuomo, or someone else, I have no idea.  I wouldn't mind either of these things if it didn't affect their existing product, but clearly it has and not in a good way and I'm pissed.

First, this "... if it didn't affect their existing product, but clearly it has and not in a good way ... " is nonsense. The "existing product" has been affected by the weather ... end of story.

Second, let's consider "... someone decided that Whiteface had to be "high end" and intermediate friendly."

Turn the clock ahead about 10-15 years, and let's say YOU own a ski area. You have two types of customers that you serve ...

One, is a regular customer, a college student, who comes to your mountain very frequently. Because he is such a regular customer, he buys a season pass for $489 (probably cheaper because he bought his pass at the end of the previous season). He's a college student, so he doesn't have a lot of money, so he brings his lunch with him instead of buying high priced food and drinks at your cafeteria. He buys all of his ski gear online, or at other ski shops, so he doesn't spend any money in the shop at your mountain. He's a decent skier, a legend in his own mind, so he never takes any lessons. At the end of the season, his total investment in your business is $489.

The second, is a family of five from New York City, who comes to your mountain once a year during President's week. They ski 5 days during the week. They pay about $1500 for lift tickets for the family. They also book a bunch of private lessons for mom and the kids, 3 hours each day, so that dad can have his chance to get away from his trophy wife and bratty kids, to the tune of $5000. The kids eat in the cafeteria each day, while mom and dad dine in your upscale restaurant for about $650 for the week. At the end of each day, they go up to your newly renovated bar, because it's a really nice place to hang out after a day on the slopes, and they drop another $500 over the course of the week. Of course one of the kids forgot to bring his gloves, and another one forgot her helmet, so it's into the ski shop. While there, they also decide to buy some hoodies, and t-shirts and other gear advertising your mountain. Total spent in the ski shop ... $350. Halfway through the week, dad decides that he needs to get his skis tuned, so he leaves them at your tune shop for an overnight tune-up ... mom wants hers done too ... another $100. At the end of the week, our New York City family of five has spent over $8000 at your mountain.

Now, ask yourself, AND BE HONEST, if this was YOUR business, which customer would you be more concerned about?

spot on!!!
One day he will understand it's a Business..

billyymc wrote

snoloco wrote

The thing that is definitely on Kellett and anyone else in management is failure to clean up Hoyt's which they know darn well is many people's favorite trail (including mine).  No way they can say that they just COULDN'T finish it when they had since late summer basically up until Christmas to do it.  I would disagree with Harvey that he really cares about advanced skiers anymore since there are rocks poking through on two of the most important spring trails while they resurfaced Excelsior at least a dozen times.  If he personally cares about the experience for all ability levels then he's being told by Albany that advanced skiers be damned he has to make Whiteface more intermediate friendly at any and all costs.

Someday, when life presents you with an actual real problem, you are going to fucking implode.

Too funny!!!

And here I thought all the worlds ski problems were at Greek

It’s probably quite true, but I’ve started to think it might not really be all that funny.  Maybe those of you who have met and skied with Sno can help me out.  Some kids you meet, and you realize they are nice people, but perhaps a little off?  When I meet such people in person, and sense their difficulties with social skills, I’m patient and kind.  I certainly don’t give them shit for their struggles.  I’ve started thinking maybe I need to stop giving Sno shit......?????

Nope -- it's funny!

Face4me

For the disaster it's been this year, all they deserve from me is whatever my pass cost.  And I've spent quite a bit on food since I don't have my grill at the moment.

Stop blaming the weather.  We have thaws and r*in events every year.  It's something eastern ski areas need to plan for, but clearly Whiteface can't take the heat.

And anyone who spends 8000 dollars on a week at Whiteface is a complete and total fool.  You could go out west for that much, or a well run eastern mountain.  And if I was dad in that case I would only go somewhere that had quality advanced terrain that I could ski while everyone else was in lessons.

And while we're focused on emulating Stratton, maybe add a pay to cut the line pass.  That way they can make money off of closing lifts that should've been open.

The only thing that may help that child is a serious dose of reality.

ScottyJack wrote

The only thing that may help that child is a serious dose of reality.

snoloco wrote

...

And anyone who spends 8000 dollars on a week at Whiteface is a complete and total fool.  You could go out west for that much, or a well run eastern mountain.  And if I was dad in that case I would only go somewhere that had quality advanced terrain that I could ski while everyone else was in lessons.

...

Forgetting everything else in your post, the opinion expressed above is completely irrelevant to my question.

To repeat, If you had two customers, one who spent $489 dollars at your business, and the other who spent over $8000, which one would you be more concerned with?

It's a fairly simple question, but you need to keep your emotions out of it.

And just because you might be concerned about one more than the other doesn't mean you need to say f you to the other, which is exactly what giving up on two of the best trails on the mountain before the season even started does for anyone who can actually ski.

snoloco wrote

And just because you might be concerned about one more than the other doesn't mean you need to say f you to the other, which is exactly what giving up on two of the best trails on the mountain before the season even started does for anyone who can actually ski.

I've tried to be patient with you, but clearly this is a waste of my time.

As I've said on previous occasions, you're either the ultimate internet troll, or as others on this forum have suggested, you have some social and/or developmental issues that prevent you from engaging in an unemotional, rational, mature manner. I suspect it's the latter.

In any event, I'm done with you.

You should really do yourself a favor and stop skiing at Whiteface. It clearly causes you a lot of stress and anxiety.

JTG4eva! wrote

It’s probably quite true, but I’ve started to think it might not really be all that funny.  Maybe those of you who have met and skied with Sno can help me out.  Some kids you meet, and you realize they are nice people, but perhaps a little off?  When I meet such people in person, and sense their difficulties with social skills, I’m patient and kind.  I certainly don’t give them shit for their struggles.  I’ve started thinking maybe I need to stop giving Sno shit......?????

I've met him a few times.  He has a passion for skiing and obviously has a huge depth of knowledge.  What I find sometimes, though, with people who are exceptionally bright in a particular area is that they can be equally deficient in others.  It's probably even more of a head scratcher when you compare someone's "deficiencies" with their strengths.

Most of us here have far greater life experience.  For me, that means improved communication skills.  For instance, if I saw myself at 15 trying to talk to a girl, I'd kick my own ass for being a moron.

In short, it's exactly as Gary Larson had it:

Being truly understood on the internet is WORK. It's so much easier to be understood in real life. I find that as I rely more and more on VOICE (voice to text really) my typing skills have deteriorated which makes it even harder.

Harvey wrote

Being truly understood on the internet is WORK.

Oh common Harv --- it ain't that hard ----- we all know Scotty is a moron