Whiteface has an uphill policy

What do we think?

http://www.adkbcski.com/whiteface-uphill-policy/

The fee is normal. The designated routes, reflective clothing and lights "visible from any direction" are kind of a pain...

This should work

Check out the lighted helmet at 17 and 28 seconds! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcGS5BIIL7o 

mattchuck2 wrote

What do we think?

http://www.adkbcski.com/whiteface-uphill-policy/

The fee is normal. The designated routes, reflective clothing and lights "visible from any direction" are kind of a pain...

I didn't read the article super closely but IMO it's seems reasonable.

The mountain has not much upside (except of course PR) and a lot of downside. No real revenue to speak of, but potential liability.

Also from a price standpoint, uphill traffic is taking advantage of snowmaking and grooming, but not lifts.  That makes $25 a pretty good deal.

$25 for a season seems low enough though a day option would be nice (then again, there aren't going to be folks to take the money when people start hiking). One problem I immediately notice is the pass is only good from first day to last day of lift operations which leaves out the best times to hike ski areas... early/late season before/after the area opens. Maybe that is free or with fewer restrictions but that page does not say either way. The restriction to open trails only is rather, ehm, restrictive. Reflective clothing? Really? If someone is dawn patrolling, they will have a head lamp, that should be sufficient.

Don't ask, don't tell seems better and better all the time. Be discrete, don't be dumb, don't get in operation's way. It used to be so simple... I think pushing for official policies is only going to cause more excessive restrictions rather than opening up recreational opportunities. If you make organizations fearful of liability put forth an official policy, it is eventually going to shut the whole thing down unless you want to skin for a groomer run.

But it could be a lot worse... it could be Cannon's official policy, lulz.

WF gets a lot of uphill traffic early in the morning especially during times when there isn't a lot of snow in the back country. The amount of skiers going uphill was causing a concern because of grooming and snow making going on as well as ski patrol doing morning sweep. IMO the policy is very reasonable and everyone is safer for it.

I think the policy is very reasonable.  It's easy to throw on some reflective road bike vest or jacket and dangle a second headlamp from your pack.  Snowmobiles and groomers are going UP the trails as well and may not see a forward facing headlamp.  And those sleds are often moving fast!  Having no policy and just unofficially "allowing" it encourages a free-for-all and it's getting way too popular for that.  If that continues I guarantee there will be an incident (even if its just an unpleasant encounter between employees and a group of skinners) and that'll be the end of it.  Having a designated uptrack is the most important part of the policy IMO.  

If anyone from WF management is reading this I think this is an excellent and reasonable policy and I applaud you for it.  Anyone who thinks this policy is too onerous should just wait for the lifts to spin or do your dawn patrols where people aren't operating heavy equipment.  Let's remember, these guys are probably at the end of their shifts, they're tired, it's dark - they don't need the headaches.

Yeah, It's their mountain, they can do what they want, but I really don't know why someone would have to light themself up like a Christmas tree to basically go for a walk. Especially if they're designating the uphill trails, couldn't they choose trails that are groomed early and not main thoroughfares for mountain ops people?

It's probably a dumb discussion anyway because I don't think anyone in this forum believes that someone skinning up with a mere single headlight would get their uphill pass pulled for not being properly illuminated. Probably just a way for the mountain to cover its ass in case something does happen.

I agree with everything Noah and HPD said and I think it was a very good idea to post a reasonable policy so that there are no issues down the road.

What I want to know is who is this reasonable person posting on Noah's account?  

Matt:  Is it really a big deal to put on a second light? How is that "lighting up like a Christmas tree"?   I can see the usefulness of it, snowmobiles are going UP the trails (at that hour groomers maybe not so much).  You're "taking a walk" where people are working with multi-ton vehicles; requiring that you be visible from both directions is entirely reasonable.  C'mon dude.  The only reason I'm even having a semi-serious discussion about this here is just in case any WF management folks see it; I don't want them to think that any of the skinners have a problem with this because I really doubt they do and I think it's huge that they're officially allowing it as it could have so easily gone the other way.  You and RiverCoil don't skin there, right?  Please don't take this the wrong way because I do think you're a good guy but why don't you leave this issue to those of us for whom it has practical implications?  It's not a matter of having your pass pulled;  It's a matter of avoiding an accident or a near miss and having the entire thing shut down.

Coach Z wrote

 What I want to know is who is this reasonable person posting on Noah's account?  

Hehehe. Yea really, wat up wit dat ? New meds ? Anyhow, it's much more enjoyable for sure although he could get back to the very witty funny stuff he used to post.

The liability issue is very understandable in today's society. Like MC2 noted, it's prudent to CYA. Even BS that's quickly dismissed in Court costs Atty fees.

What can I say; there's finally something on here that I care about.  You want some of my snark?  Post another TR about your entirely forgettable day of skiing on some McMountain.  Oh, and don't forget to tell me what you had for lunch and how you scored a cheap lift ticket.

And it's not always about the "liability issue"; I think some of you guys see lawyers in your sleep.  It might just be about preserving a decent, non-stressful work environment for their employees while trying to accommodate people who like this kind of thing.  Of course there are liability concerns that may have informed this decision but if that were their only concern, they'd just shut it down.  

I went to the school bus stop, rob the kids of their milk money and used it for some cheap skiing. It was a rad day! I ate a sandwich.

Like that NJ ?

I had chicken noodle soup in the cafeteria on Sunday and a hot dog too. The soup was really, really good and the hot dog was good too, but it was just your regular run of the mill hot dog.

Awesome ! Epic !

We forgot to throw those in.

◦Uphill climbing is not permitted during daytime lift operation

◦Users will be asked to start descending when Ski Patrol starts AM trail check and PM trail sweep.

So who is the guy that goes up in the am and waits until 4 to come down?

What Noah said!

Thank you WF for the progressive approach!  This is cool.  

skimore wrote

◦Users will be asked to start descending when Ski Patrol starts AM trail check and PM trail sweep.

So who is the guy that goes up in the am and waits until 4 to come down?

hahahahahah!  them be the outlaws waiting out patrol to poach slides post lift time!  

Noah John wrote

The only reason I'm even having a semi-serious discussion about this here is just in case any WF management folks see it; I don't want them to think that any of the skinners have a problem with this because I really doubt they do and I think it's huge that they're officially allowing it as it could have so easily gone the other way.  You and RiverCoil don't skin there, right?  Please don't take this the wrong way because I do think you're a good guy but why don't you leave this issue to those of us for whom it has practical implications?

I might skin there at some time in the future, but I'll take your point and shut up about it, I guess.

I have unique experiences with management reading forums and making rash decisions.

mattchuck2 wrote

 I might skin there at some time in the future, but I'll take your point and shut up about it, I guess.

  It's not that I think the points you raise are completely baseless and bizarre.  I'm just psyched that, big picture-wise, WF got this right and I don't want management to think that's gone unnoticed while we grouse about the details.  

mattchuck2 wrote

I have unique experiences with management reading forums and making rash decisions.

   Hmmmm.  I'd like to hear more about this sometime.