ACR lands the Great White Shark

Look, Benny is right on a lot of points. Tupper is not a playground for the 1%ers. It might attrack some 5%ers who wannabe 1%ers.

If you can ski anywhere, would it be Tupper? If you could Golf anywhere would it be Tupper? If you could boat anywhere on a nice lake would it be Tupper?

So if you put your rose colored glasses on, could you really see Tupper being a resort playground for the well heeled?

I don't see it. Jay saved their hide by building the water park, but the also have a real mountain and they got the EB5 money. My guess is that in 5 to 10 years the facilities will be worn out and getting run down. If they build Tupper it will be a big boom followed by a bust or slow 10 to 15 year decay.

Is this the best way to spend state money? If they can seed a lot of external investment and bring in a lot of suckers to pay high property taxes on properties that are white elephants and require little services where they no longer have to support the area than in the long run the state will get the money back, maybe not in income but in reduced expenses.

I just hate to see it all built up only to watch it all fall apart as time eats away at it.

Coach Z wrote

My take is that Orda and thus NYS bankrupted Tupper around 2000 when it invested in WF and Gore  with the gondis and at the same time lowered season pass prices.  Nys owes it to Tupper which has since become a goast town in the winter to do something to bring it back.

NYS doesn't owe Big Tupper anything. Your take is nothing more than unrelated events.

Big Tupper was bought out of bankruptcy in Aug, 1992, and  then closed again in 1999. The combination of location and marginal terrain are the major problems. It is not in a snow belt like Snow Ridge. Here is an article from the Press Republican, Aug 24, 1999.

"Big Tupper Ski Area closes : Owner cites bad weather, mounting debt as primary factors

TUPPER LAKE — Buried by debts instead of snow, Big Tupper Ski Area Inc. on Monday said it was closing with little chance of reopening again.

"It's been an uphill battle the whole way," said Peter Day, who purchased the Mount Morris facility with Leroy Pickering in 1992. "Things are not good in ski country."

The two owners, Day said, have pumped $7 million into Big Tupper since 1992 and are now $2.2 million in debt.

But the company will not declare bankruptcy. Day expects to take in about $1.2 million from selling equipment and the 450 acres of land where Big Tupper sits. The remaining $1 million will be financed and paid over a 10- or 15-year period."

Here is the whole article:
http://blog.pressrepublican.com/archive/index.php

Coach Z wrote

As Matt said I am a conservative but the state money that is going to invested is coming from wall street and since the state has already taken it I'd prefer they spend it up here compared to Long Island or somewhere else.  If they were going to have to raise all our taxes for this it might be a different story but a tourism tax hike in Franklin and Essex county I would support.  If the money is coming from the Govs steal from the rich bank fund and he is using it to play favorites the Daks should get thier share and this looks like a good place for it.

I'd say this project has a snowball's chance in hell for a slice of the Gov's half billion.  Those regional grants are meant for economic development that will create jobs.  Building great camps for the 1% creates no jobs other than temporary construction, and that's why real estate development in general is ineligible for economic development funding.  The ski area, marina and hotel, if they ever come to be, do create jobs, however those are service sector jobs that are mostly at the lower end of the payscale.  The Gov is looking for "projects that create above-average salaries, which tends to increase a region’s overall wealth. A large number of below-average paying jobs can have the opposite effect."  The ACR project will be pretty far down the priority list.

Coach Z wrote

As Matt said I am a conservative but the state money that is going to invested is coming from wall street and since the state has already taken it I'd prefer they spend it up here compared to Long Island or somewhere else.  If they were going to have to raise all our taxes for this...

Meh, they have money from the banks worth about $300 per New Yorker. They could give that back to the people in the form of a one time tax break (instead of increasing spending). I would imagine that would be the "true" conservative position. (In reality, I think a lot of it will probably go to the Tappen Zee Bridge replacement).

I agree with Coach that the Greg Norman thing is great publicity for getting money from this dumb Cuomo program. The projects that get money are all about crazy self promotion and ridiculous, over-the-moon promises. The ACR people seem to be good at both. They might just get the money.

But I'd still be disappointed because the ski area seems to be the last priority.

I'd be all for giving the money back as a tax credit to those who actually pay taxes.  The Gov has no intention of doing that.  He is having too much fun getting everyone begging for the money with all the political capital he will get in doling it out.  From what I've heard the idea is to use it for infrastructure so building the roads and sewer needed by ACR would qualify.  The Gov also likes photo ops and the one with Norman is going to look great on the front page of the papers all over NYS.

The other good part of how this could play out is that the golf upgrades are paid for by either the town or state so that money can go towards the ski area.  

Coach Z wrote

The other good part of how this could play out is that the golf upgrades are paid for by either the town or state so that money can go towards profit for the developers.

Fixed it for you Coach.

Norman & his cohorts seem fixated on state aid.  In yesterday's NCPR article, Norman's representative said that getting NYS to partner in the project was "very important."  The meeting last week between Norman, the developers and state officials was all about getting state aid. "They also talked about the (town-owned) golf course and different possibilities and where we think we can get pools of money," Maroun (TL Village mayor) said.

Norman's representative was evasive when asked by NCPR's Brian Mann directly asked whether Norman / GWSE would be taking a stake as an investor in ACR.  Instead of being an investor, the relationship was described as "an alignment," whatever that is.  

Reading between the lines, I'd say it looks like maybe Norman has agreed to provide design and marketing consulting services for the golf course in exchange for his Great Camp lot, as long as NYS ponies up the money for the golf course reconstruction costs.  And voila! now you've got an "alignment" with no investment and no risk on Norman's part.  If the state money doesn't materialize, Norman simply backs out with no loss and everyone blames it on NY's failure to "invest in Tupper Lake."

Adk Jeff wrote

The other good part of how this could play out is that the golf upgrades are paid for by either the town or state so that money can go towards profit for the developers.

Pretty tacky, Norman flies in on his private jet, lots of boasting about his multi million dollar company and all their successful projects and he has his hand out looking for State tax dollars to help his bottom line.  

endoftheline wrote

Adk Jeff wrote

The other good part of how this could play out is that the golf upgrades are paid for by either the town or state so that money can go towards profit for the developers.

Pretty tacky, Norman flies in on his private jet, lots of boasting about his multi million dollar company and all their successful projects and he has his hand out looking for State tax dollars to help his bottom line.

Many of these guys are watching Elon Musk establish his companies on government largess while projecting some sort of new, 21st century bootstrap ethos, and probably say, yeah, I want some of that. Such a deal.

9:36

Benny's stoned again

Every company plays the angles to see what goverment bennies they can score.  Get it Bennies and score

Benny Profane wrote

endoftheline wrote

Adk Jeff wrote

The other good part of how this could play out is that the golf upgrades are paid for by either the town or state so that money can go towards profit for the developers.

Pretty tacky, Norman flies in on his private jet, lots of boasting about his multi million dollar company and all their successful projects and he has his hand out looking for State tax dollars to help his bottom line.

Many of these guys are watching Elon Musk establish his companies on government largess while projecting some sort of new, 21st century bootstrap ethos, and probably say, yeah, I want some of that. Such a deal.

The Albany Times Union ran a story on Monday on this, not a whole lot of new info and some factually incorrect but one section was interesting.  " On Monday, Tupper Lake developer Tom Lawson said he could not confirm or deny that Norman was buying into a share of the project, which carries an estimated price tag of $500 million"  
 The local Tupper Paper also came out today with a picture on the front page of Lawson and Norman signing an agreement. It goes on to say " Mr Norman is expected to lend his vast knowledge and expertise in resort promotion, marketing and branding to help elevate the unfolding development her into a world-class venture" .  

Again, no mention of actually plunking down any of his cash to fund this long shot. Sounds like he is going to pass It on to one of his subsidiary companies called Southern Cross Development to try and put lipstick on the pig. Good Luck. But as the old saying goes, there is sucker born every minute.

Coach Z wrote

  Get it Bennies and score

WTH is that ?

11:24 and Coach is drunk again.

Bennie could be more of a wake an baker you never know

Snowballs wrote

Coach Z wrote

  Get it Bennies and score

WTH is that ?

11:24 and Coach is drunk again.

On antibiotics for a sinus infection so no drinky for the coach

My point is Benny is nuts if he thinks that any business is not looking for the best deal they can get from local and state governments.

And my point is that, yeah, sure, almost every business owner does that, while at the same time projecting an image that they established that business all by themselves with no help from the government. You know, like the slackers and leeches who suck on the taxpayers tit by collecting social security.

I worked in a large printing plant in Saratoga Springs that probably paid zero taxes for years because the company played a few states in the area off of one another when searching for a sight to build the place. When it really came down to it, the CEO picked Saratoga because he liked the town so much for a new mansion. And then I see him on the tube a few years ago supporting Romney and telling me how the evil tax and spend Dems are ruining this country. Right.

The cash should start pouring in now:
Adirondack Daily Enterprise: Resort gets permit to sell lots

The developers of the Adirondack Club and Resort recently received some good news. On June 12, Bob Sweeney, the attorney for the 6,200-acre project, received a letter from the state attorney general's office stating a Cooperative Policy Statement 7 permit had been approved for the first phase of the resort. This lets its developers, Pennsylvania-based Preserve Associates, begin signing contracts and taking deposits to sell lots.

Wish them luck,    that said, I think the Director of Sales just pooped his/her pants.         Time to shine......

Adk Jeff wrote

The cash should start pouring in now:
Adirondack Daily Enterprise: Resort gets permit to sell lots

The developers of the Adirondack Club and Resort recently received some good news. On June 12, Bob Sweeney, the attorney for the 6,200-acre project, received a letter from the state attorney general's office stating a Cooperative Policy Statement 7 permit had been approved for the first phase of the resort. This lets its developers, Pennsylvania-based Preserve Associates, begin signing contracts and taking deposits to sell lots.

Yeah Jeff, All those mysterious investors just waiting in the wings can now rush in and throw money at the ACR. I've heard they are just backed up out the door of Lawsons' office in Tupper fighting over the prime lots.

Two articles on Norman and ARC on front page of Press Republican today

One of them states that ARC does not currently plan to use the Pilot program that Endo is so against.  Sounds like they are more counting on The Govs competitive bidding for infrastructure funding to cover the water and sewer costs.

http://www.pressrepublican.com/news/local_news/pilot-plans-bonding-paused-in-tupper-development-discussion/article_1a079fce-435c-5143-87b1-8af3ea9339cf.html?mode=jqm

"The one-time competitive pool of funding is “focusing on catalytic infrastructure projects,” according to the Division of Budget."

Calling speculative residential real estate development a "catalytic infrastructure project" is going to be a pretty tough sell in my opinion.

You see any better projects in the North Country?.

Plus this has Norman lobbying the Gov.  The Gov likes seeing himself on the news and papers and this has great pr value