Advice on a skinning set up

Thinking of using my holiday teaching cash for a new set up for skinning.  Don't know much so please educate me.  Plan to use it at WF for access to terrain when Wind issues shut upper lifts or an occasional dawn patrol mid week.

My new Dabello Panterra boot this season has a hike mode so I'm good there.  It has a din sole.

I am obligated to ski on Elan.  They have a touring series but I'm thinking more towards a Spectrum series which is pretty light for an alpine ski.  What width do I want?  Thinking 95 cm

I know little about bindings and skins.  What works well for my intended use?

Do I need to get adjustable poles as well?

marker ft12's are probably what you want. Reliable. Not sketchy on any terrain. Lighter than dukes and barons. Din compatible. No need to buy special poles but they're $50-75 if you want them. All the new skins are fine, G3's compact a bit more in your pocket, I don't like the clips as much as the BD's. Can't go wrong with either, just don't mess up cutting them (it's easy).

Enjoyed the Himalaya a lot when I took them out in the high peaks. Have fun.

How would the Himalaya ski in bounds at WF?

What is a BD skin?

BD = Black Diamond. The ascension STS is probably the most popular skin you'll see out there. Usually you'll find G3s at a cheaper price. People say the grip isn't as great. If you're mostly hiking inbounds WF, you won't notice a difference.

The F10/12 tours are a good binding. If you were planning on going used, make sure it's not the first gen of them. They had a major design flaw. Wildsnow Review

Coach Z wrote

Thinking of using my holiday teaching cash for a new set up for skinning.  Don't know much so please educate me.  Plan to use it at WF for access to terrain when Wind issues shut upper lifts or an occasional dawn patrol mid week.

My new Dabello Panterra boot this season has a hike mode so I'm good there.  It has a din sole.

I am obligated to ski on Elan.  They have a touring series but I'm thinking more towards a Spectrum series which is pretty light for an alpine ski.  What width do I want?  Thinking 95 cm

I know little about bindings and skins.  What works well for my intended use?

Do I need to get adjustable poles as well?

Skis: Get whatever you enjoy skiing, you don't need a touring specific ski unless you are a weight weenie. You are going to use your alpine boots and a non-tech binding for touring so you definitely don't fall into that class. Boot weight and binding weight are far bigger than ski weight of touring vs non-touring models. Ski whatever you want for the conditions you expect to encounter most frequently.

Skins: The primary choices are Black Diamond or G3. I have used both. I like G3 better for their glue but BD better for their tail clip. Whatev, get whatever skin is cheapest and onsale. Backcountry.com has a self branded skin that is really the G3 skin and it comes with G3's skin cutting tool (a must have, buy separately if you go with BD).

Poles: I can't imagine skinning without touring poles. BD Traverse are the gold standard as far as I am concerned. I skin up at 130 and ski down at 115, big difference. Definitely worth the investment.

You might want to think long term, though you'll know whether or not it is even a consideration. If you love skinning and start doing it a lot, you'll eventually want dedicated gear. Touring specific boots and tech bindings are awesome. If you are just skinning up two or three times a year on wind hold days, probably not worth the investment. But if you take to it and you're doing it a lot, the weight savings is immense. If doing a lot of touring isn't on your radar, don't worry about it. But something to think about. Otherwise, you can get a combo binding, something like the marker previously mentioned, and you can use the ski for regular alpine and touring... and you are adding a ski to the quiver so your decision on what to get could be impacted by what you already have...

yea, it's necessary to have the touring poles.

Coach -  some food for thought on skins.  For your purposes, previous advice to buy what ever you can get the cheapest is  bang on.
Another consideration is how your going to size the skins.  Hard core touring and rando peeps buy a ski the width of the shovel (or widest contact part of the ski), and then trim the skins to the ski width (leaving the edges exposed) for the full length.  The other way - which is easier - is to buy skins the width of the waist. That way you don't need to trim the width. You end up with skins that fold onto themselves perfectly, leaving no glue exposed. This really enhances the life of the skins, as contaminated glue is the enemy. Fleece, wool, pet hair, lint in your pack  - all contribute to glue contamination.

The flip side of this is that you don't have as much skin surface on the snow as you would with "wall to wall" skins. This is really only an issue for BC touring - as you're  going to be skinning in bounds, in known terrain and with a pretty much guaranteed snow pack underneath, you'll be fine with the straight non trimmed skin method.
The other advantage to this method is that the skins are not dedicated to a specific side cut and length ski.  

Regardless of which way you go (not that there's anything wrong with either.. ) take the time to hang your skins up to dry after each session/day...

Probably best to practice putting them on your skis and removing them in a controlled environment - even at home inside.
It's no fun learning for the first time on a windy day at the top of the mountain that skin glue sticks to facial hair really well... (Total "skin JONG" move... Ouch. )   

Lots of spot on advice. I have a pair of Back Country Access skins, they are a bit unwieldy but have a strong climbing grip and no glide. I use them for my big powder skis, my other skins are ski specific, bought to fit the ski. You will need to practice putting skins on and off before venturing out, it takes a little technique. I no longer have the flexibility to take my skins off or on without removing my skins, that is why I have been thinking about a ski like the BC Chargers.  

I have the BD  traverse aluminum poles, I also have a pair of carbon fiber BD hiking poles, but these are a little light duty for skiing, I will use them if I am doing some non-technical touring because they are so light.

You may try the Back Country Access Alpine trekers, these snap into your Alpine boot and Alpine binding converting your alpine rig into a touring rig. You will not stay with these but they will let you know whether or not you will like this without making the full commitment. They are pretty light duty and I would not recommend them for anything other than dawn patrols. You can also adjust them so that if you stay with this and invest in the full AT or Tele rig your son can use them to tag along until he stops growing and you can invest in a full rig for him too. They are usually considered a shit product but they do have their place.

Shop local! Go see Drew at the mountaineer.  

For touring WF slap a pair of these on your alpine ski-. http://store.mountaineer.com/product_p/freeridepro.htm

Been on them for over a decade. You will not be disappointed.   They have an adjustable toe piece so if u goto an AT boot they'll still work. Easy to go into and out of tour mode and super easy to click up as slope increases. They climb very, very efficiently.

Get a black Diamond  skin and have Drew cut it.  

I don't use adjustable poles for dawn patrol but def use them on BC trips.  

How will you be skiing on your touring gear? By that I mean are you just going for one run and then change out your skis if you ride lifts for the rest of the day? Are they mostly going to be for powder and true bc conditions or are they going to be slammed thru bumps or driven hard on the hard pack? Trips into the high peaks or longer ski tours? I would start with that. It does matter.

It's going to be my 5th ski in my quiver

I'll likely use it also for lift serviced powder days and in the spring

It sounds like you don't need the lightest set up then. Something pretty strong I think would do you good. I have one set of skis right now so I have Marker Dukes. I do long tours with them but it's far from ideal. On the down tho they are as sick as it gets. They feel as bomber as the green spring Salomon's with a din up to 17 I used back during my hucking days. They are heavy tho and eventually once I'm done with school I want to have an ultra-light touring set up. For now tho they serve all purposes for me.

The Cham guys laugh at the Marker set ups. But they are animals that cover massive ground. I need my touring bindings to be able to hold up to being hammered on lift laps as well. You feel that weight when skinning. It's sort of like heavy rotation weight on a bike. I would compare it to having really heavy tires and wheels on an xc mountain bike.

The lighter Marker touring bindings I think are pretty burly still but much lighter. I don't have any other experience really other than the Markers. Before that I post holed or used Trekkers. Touring bindings are a massive ski experience changer. It opens so much more up. So basically the only advice I can give you is look for something not too heavy but can take some abuse. I think that middle ground binding would serve your uses well.

Someone mentioned poles, I don't use adjustable poles. All of my experiences with them is that the adjustable aspect creates more problems than it's worth. I do use carbon poles tho. I hate heavy swing weight for pole planting.

And as far as skis go I wouldn't go super light for your area. Your conditions are just too variable to have that super light deep Utah powder snow ski. I have heard that the BD skis are made mostly for skiing deep soft snow and they aren't that great on hard and icy conditions.

The BD skins I use are awesome. What ever you do, don'e let someone talk you into those non-glue skins. If someone is pushing those things they are clueless. They are ok for the person doing one quickie lap at the area and they put the skins on in the warmth of their own home. For real touring use in the elements they are a nightmare.

More solid advice.

Coach,

My buddy was recently laid off and is selling a bunch of her gear. She has a second set of new in plastic BD Expedition 3 poles that I thought you might want first crack on, $60. Same as these, blue 85-125cm:

http://gearx.com/black-diamond-expedition-ski-pole-1?gclid=CjwKEAiA5qOlBRDAn8K5qen65joSJADRvlbqTDrTiw4Y58xXuQG9Ia8vc-TFBYFYVupGlo9YQDeHORoCT-rw_wcB#522=1407

Full disclosure, backcountry has the newer yellow ones for $80.

Coach Z wrote

It's going to be my 5th ski in my quiver

I'll likely use it also for lift serviced powder days and in the spring

I use the Fritchi Free ride set up for all my WF skiing on a pair of Salomon 1080s.  It is perfect on storm days, BD skins work great at accessing the upper Mtn as the lifts don't usually spin due to wind. I use the telescoping poles on those days, gives me better leverage on the climb. Just my 2 cents. One thing to consider is the max DIN only goes to 12, might be a concern for big guys, or maybe the newer versions have a higher setting, haven't checked.

endoftheline wrote

Coach Z wrote

It's going to be my 5th ski in my quiver

I'll likely use it also for lift serviced powder days and in the spring

I use the Fritchi Free ride set up for all my WF skiing on a pair of Salomon 1080s.  It is perfect on storm days, BD skins work great at accessing the upper Mtn as the lifts don't usually spin due to wind. I use the telescoping poles on those days, gives me better leverage on the climb. Just my 2 cents. One thing to consider is the max DIN only goes to 12, might be a concern for big guys, or maybe the newer versions have a higher setting, haven't checked.

The Fritchi Free Rides were the jam when they were first released but over time they became problematic for most people. They had lots of play in them after heavy use and they will even automatically change modes while skiing. That's not anything I'm interested in but as you said this may have changed. I don't pay much attention to the latest and greatest. Being a student I'm too poor to look at that stuff!

ml242 wrote

Coach,

My buddy was recently laid off and is selling a bunch of her gear. She has a second set of new in plastic BD Expedition 3 poles that I thought you might want first crack on, $60. Same as these, blue 85-125cm:

http://gearx.com/black-diamond-expedition-ski-pole-1?gclid=CjwKEAiA5qOlBRDAn8K5qen65joSJADRvlbqTDrTiw4Y58xXuQG9Ia8vc-TFBYFYVupGlo9YQDeHORoCT-rw_wcB#522=1407

Full disclosure, backcountry has the newer yellow ones for $80.

Wife got me a pair of BD expedition poles for Xmas, tried them last weekend and they are great. I would highly recommend three section collapsable poles, you can stow them on your pack with your skis when climbing up non-skinable terrain and you can adjust them based on the terrain you are skiing and skinning.

PeeTex wrote

ml242 wrote

Coach,

My buddy was recently laid off and is selling a bunch of her gear. She has a second set of new in plastic BD Expedition 3 poles that I thought you might want first crack on, $60. Same as these, blue 85-125cm:

http://gearx.com/black-diamond-expedition-ski-pole-1?gclid=CjwKEAiA5qOlBRDAn8K5qen65joSJADRvlbqTDrTiw4Y58xXuQG9Ia8vc-TFBYFYVupGlo9YQDeHORoCT-rw_wcB#522=1407

Full disclosure, backcountry has the newer yellow ones for $80.

Wife got me a pair of BD expedition poles for Xmas, tried them last weekend and they are great. I would highly recommend three section collapsable poles, you can stow them on your pack with your skis when climbing up non-skinable terrain and you can adjust them based on the terrain you are skiing and skinning.

In what situation would you ever be climbing something that is un-skinable and not want to have your poles out?

I had adjustable poles once and I thought they were to much of a hassle to be worth it. For split boarding it makes complete sense. Not that I think my way is the only way and you aren't making good use of them. I just wouldn't suggest new poles as the integral part of your new touring set up. I do adjust my hand height on the uphill pole when skinning across/switchbacking on steep slopes but the time it would take to stop and adjust every time would not be worth it imo. I have found that the more touring I do and try to cover more ground it's these little things that I start eliminating. Time can be one of the most important aspects of keeping your ski tours safe.

raisingarizona wrote

In what situation would you ever be climbing something that is un-skinable and not want to have your poles out?

There are situations in the Adirondacks where during the approach where poles can get in the way, but that's not a ski resort dawn patrol. I also find poles annoying, if My preference is colapsable poles, yours may not be- leave it at that.

raisingarizona wrote

In what situation would you ever be climbing something that is un-skinable and not want to have your poles out?
 

When you need something else in your hand such as an axe

raisingarizona wrote

I had adjustable poles once and I thought they were to much of a hassle to be worth it.

Hassle? It takes like 2 seconds to adjust a flint lock on the 2 section poles. 3 section ones are overkill as the 2 section ones fit on a pack easily

Disagree on the newer Fritschi bindings. I have 2 pair of the newer Fritschi's, 1 Marker Duke and a Plum. I have tons of rounds on all but the Dukes. The Dukes are the ones I've had issues with and I barely use them. I even hammer my Fritschis at the resorts.........granted that's only on pow days