Gore Conditions (2012-2013)

C'mon now...there was only 6"

ski2moro wrote

Take a lesson? A level 4-5 skier cannot go from skiing groomed Twister one day to a chopped Twister in one lesson.

False.

Just ski it? I was almost hit by an out of control little *&^% today who was 'just skiing it.'  He was out of control, he couldn’t turn, and he couldn’t stop.  That’s MY frustration.

That can happen on a groomed trail too and you know it. It's not the fault of the snow, it's the fault of the skier skiing something above his ability level.

No need to toss around insults to those who can't ski as well as you.

I never insulted anyone. Reread my post.

And I never would insult anyone just because they can't ski as well as me. Everybody is a beginner at some point. It's up to you whether you want to remain a perpetual intermediate or whether you want to get better.

And it's true, it was only 6 inches. TBatt has snow billowing up over his head and you're complaining about 6 inches?!?! Really???????

I give up.

I remember when i could not ski powder.  It was a lot of work and not much fun.  Once your learn you can go much straighter for much longer before you are out of control a light bulb will go off.  Then your hooked.  

A good idea is to get to the hill as early as possible.  Skiing powder on top of cord is a great way to learn.  Just go straight and start little turns after you get up to speed.   Then as it gets chopped up you will know what to expect and you will be skiing pow bumps.  It really is a nast progression.  

mattchuck2 wrote

ski2moro wrote

Take a lesson? A level 4-5 skier cannot go from skiing groomed Twister one day to a chopped Twister in one lesson.

False.

Yeah - one lesson on ungroomed is going to turn all those intermediates around.

mattchuck2 wrote

ski2moro wrote

Just ski it? I was almost hit by an out of control little *&^% today who was 'just skiing it.'  He was out of control, he couldn’t turn, and he couldn’t stop.  That’s MY frustration.

That can happen on a groomed trail too and you know it. It's not the fault of the snow, it's the fault of the skier skiing
something above his ability level.

So its the intermediates' fault for trying to ski a trail (Showcase/Twister) that they have skied many times before with no problems.

mattchuck2 wrote

No need to toss around insults to those who can't ski as well as you.

I never insulted anyone. Reread my post.

And I never would insult anyone just because they can't ski as well as me. Everybody is a beginner at some point. It's up to you whether you want to remain a perpetual intermediate or whether you want to get better.

And it's true, it was only 6 inches. TBatt has snow billowing up over his head and you're complaining about 6 inches?!?! Really???????

Wow.

mattchuck2 wrote

 It's up to you whether you want to remain a perpetual intermediate or whether you want to get better.

This particular statement shows your lack of understanding. There are many reasons why people remain intermediates. Here are some reasons: time, family, don't care to get better, money, fear, other interests. I know many skiers who are completely happy being an intermediate.

The idea that you need to get better to enjoy a winter vacation at a ski area is way off the mark. When the 430 acre Gore Mtn with its advertised 60% intermediate terrain has most of the blue terrain closed and/or not groomed and charges full price people are going to complain. People expect to ski what they ski during weekends at Gore. This isn't MRG or Hickory.

Just because many people don't aspire to become a high level skier like you does not mean their opinions and complaints are not valid.

The sad fact about Gore is that we do not make the mistake of spending a week skiing at Gore anymore. My intermediate wife likes the North Quad area and that is closed quite often midweek (along with huge chunks of the stuff I like to ski - Darkside/Burnt Ridge). We now spend our ski week vacation elsewhere. I am sure we are not the only people who are making this decision as Gore is quite empty midweek.

mattchuck2 wrote

ski2moro wrote

Take a lesson? A level 4-5 skier cannot go from skiing groomed Twister one day to a chopped Twister in one lesson.

False.

It may be false for some people, but it not false for everyone. For some skiing comes naturally, others have to work at it just to become intermediate. My kids started fairly young and picked things up pretty easily. I started at around 30 and have found powder, bumps, trees to be a challenge.

I think gore does themselves a disservice by not grooming the lower mountain. The intermediates want groomers, the experts want to ski the summit.

tom

mattchuck2 wrote

 TBatt has snow billowing up over his head and you're complaining about 6 inches?!?! Really???????

I REALLY wish I could be complaining about snow billowing up over my head right now.

x10003q wrote

Yeah - one lesson on ungroomed is going to turn all those intermediates around.

Never said that. I said if you want to get better, take a lesson. I didn't say ONE lesson will "turn all those intermediates around" (whatever that means). I said it would make you better. If you don't believe that, you haven't taken a lesson in a while (a good lesson, anyway). Gore is offering a "Master of the Mountain" lesson this weekend that is geared to just this type of skiing.

So its the intermediates' fault for trying to ski a trail (Showcase/Twister) that they have skied many times before with no problems.

Of course it's the intermediate's fault. He almost ran into someone else on the hill. That's a blatant violation of the Skier's Responsibility Code. Are you suggesting that the mountain is at fault? If so, should someone be able to sue the mountain if they get hit on a trail with "too much powder" (or too much "ice"), etc. The trail rating is dependent on the conditions of the day. Just because a trail was easy for you one day does not mean it will be easy the next. You know that, x, I shouldn't have to explain it to you.

mattchuck2 wrote

 It's up to you whether you want to remain a perpetual intermediate or whether you want to get better.

This particular statement shows your lack of understanding. There are many reasons why people remain intermediates. Here are some reasons: time, family, don't care to get better, money, fear, other interests. I know many skiers who are completely happy being an intermediate.

You said I have a lack of understanding, then your last sentence is pretty much a copy of my point. Some people are happy being perpetual intermediate. Like I said, that's fine. And it's up to you if you want to get better, or to remain in that state.

But if you don't want to make the slightest attempt to get better at skiing powder, at least don't complain about it when we get it. Wait a couple of days until the trails are groomed to your liking.

All that being said, I agree that Gore should open up more terrain (both groomed and ungroomed) midweek and I've said that for years.

x10003q wrote

The idea that you need to get better to enjoy a winter vacation at a ski area is way off the mark.

So is the idea that a little bit of a challenge should be deemed a bad ski day. These same people complaining would find something to whine about at the grocery store.

I'm willing to bet more people than not had an enjoyable day skiing the ungroomed surfaces

It wasn't powder on the lower mountain on Tuesday.  I was there all morning. Showcase was covered in 6+" of crusty, tracked, heavy, wet man-made snow.  Twister was rutted, piles of heavy, wet snow.  An intermediate cannot push that around while they are making their round turns.

Skiing is not ever going to be this perfectly controlled environment in which to turn in (well except maybe at Deer Valley).  This is not bowling people.  Different conditions, snow, weather, and many other variables are all part of the whole enchilada.

PSIA has a skills concept that describes how you modify the 4 different skiing skills in response to different snow conditions or desired outcomes.  Crud snow does require the same skills just applied in different proportions.  This is a big part of what coaches like Matt and I do and if people at Gore that day were having a hard time there was a deadicated staff of ski pros right there at the mountain to help them.  Group lessons are much cheaper than lift tickets and pay long term dividends back in increased enjoyment of the sport.

OK its raining and everyone is grumpy.  Let's refocus on the title of the thread here.  Anyone ski today?  How's she holding up?

Looks like everything that can be will (have) be groomed for Friday.

Actually I think Harv should extract the posts related to various terrain expectations to another "woodstove" thread, I think the discussion has been good and highlights the diversity of skiers we have here.

Yup,

Took a few laps on freshly recycled, barely been bent Volkl Supersports-(161CM) that the Gear Source remounted the Markers from my original pair of Supersports from 2005 (168CM) that I shot to pieces on Hickory and High-Line.  I almost dislocated my knees, attempting to steer them like my almost new RTM 80's through the manky tatter bumps.  Very grabby snow, going way too quick and by Friday will result in a patchwork of potholes, gravel, and cat tracks strewn across a tilted Hockey Rink.  Perfect for all ability levels!

But wait there's more!  First Friday Festivous @ The Gear Source 2/1/13 from 6-9:00 PM featuring noted Paddler, Teleparalleler and Guitarist Brian Conway.  Should be most goodly with the usual cast of More Gore Trash putting in a Cameo and their two cents on how it just doesn't matter what the conditions are; we are sure to ski anyways as any day above ground is a good day, above ground on skis is a GREAT day.

Go left, then right. Repeat.

Non intermediate skier chiming in here:

While I enjoy bumps as much as the next guy, the upper mountain seems to have been ignored over the last few weekends.  It's rare that more than one or two trails on the summit have been groomed daily.  I'm ok with this, but I can see how others may be upset.  With five expert trails, at least two should be groomed daily.

As for the lower mountain, it's not only the intermediates that crave groomed runs.  I love bombing down showcase or twister (racing permitting) when they are groomed.  They are great cruisers and should be groomed well so that all skiers can enjoy them.  

I and most of my Gore friends have definitely noticed a change in the grooming at the mountain this year.  What's up with that?

this an interesting thread to see such a variety of opinions on grooming. it shows that Gore or any mountain can't expect to please everyone ( except MRG ). i have enjoyed the last couple of years when the upper mountain is left wild and groomed less. this how skiing was many years ago with giant bumps on hawkeye, chati, hullabaloo, steilhang all season long. but skiers have been trained to expect groomed conditions even on diamond trails so i wouldn't mind 50/50 groomed/ungroomed on diamonds. i do think the majority of blues should be groomed because there are many skiers who have no interest or the time to learn to ski crud, etc, but, a few blues should be set aside ungroomed so some skiers could try to improve their skills. i learned to ski crud and powder by skiing northern vermont. i was never going to learn at gore considering the paucity of natural snow.  people learn to ski on what is available most often. for Gore, this means man-made snow which has to be groomed.

64ER wrote

Very grabby snow, going way too quick and by Friday will result in a patchwork of potholes, gravel, and cat tracks strewn across a tilted Hockey Rink.  Perfect for all ability levels!

Thanks for the update.  I expected as much.  Still a bummer to hear.  Hopefully the cold weather will put a quick brake on things.  I thought they did a real nice job recovering from the first thaw.  Hopefully this one isn't as bad.

64ER wrote

it just doesn't matter what the conditions are; we are sure to ski anyways as any day above ground is a good day, above ground on skis is a GREAT day.

Amen.  You guys should throw in and buy a cheapy pair of sticks from Jeff or get him to just throw a few pairs in and make a sacrifice on Friday night.  Maybe that will help.  Just make sure he doesn't grab my wife's old snowboard - I could use the $$.

I think the discussion should stay a part of Gore Conditions.  Not sure why I think that.

Is it a classic?  Hey, Gore has distinct audiences that want different things from the mountain.

I actually think Gore favors beginners and intermediates in some important way. Ski school is huge at Gore. And first terrain they go after at the beginning of the season and after a meltdown is Foxlair, Ruby Run, Sunway, 3B, Quicksilver, Jamboree, Bear Cub Run. If Gore was favoring experts, they might start the season on Topridge and download the Gondi.

I'm impressed with this thread, this crew, really. With that shit show on the radar, it's definitely affecting the various forums.

Harvey44 wrote

I think the discussion should stay a part of Gore Conditions.  Not sure why I think that.

cause it's your snadbox - you get to do what you want.

Harvey44 wrote

Is it a classic?  Hey, Gore has distinct audiences that want different things from the mountain.

I would not call Gore a "classic", but it is very unique among ski area. It's not quite a shoe string operation but it is also not a plush mac'ski area. How mny other ski areas (except WF and now Bell) are run by a government authority for the main purpose of providing economic support for a rural area.
 

Harvey44 wrote

I actually think Gore favors beginners and intermediates in some important way. Ski school is huge at Gore. And first terrain they go after at the beginning of the season and after a meltdown is Foxlair, Ruby Run, Sunway, 3B, Quicksilver, Jamboree, Bear Cub Run. If Gore was favoring experts, they might start the season on Topridge and download the Gondi.

I'm impressed with this thread, this crew, really. With that shit show on the radar, it's definitely affecting the various forums.

Once TR was put in it was the first to get going, this year was one of the few if any exceptions. If my memory serves me right (and it may not) I seem to recall one opening where you had to down load the Gondi. So did Gore change their skiier focus, I doubt it - I think they tried something new to see if they could manage early season terrain better.
However I think Gore is like most ski areas, they try to prepare the mountian to serve the intermediate to advanced skier where the center of the public is and yet still provide good terrain for everybody. I like Gore's opening strategy this year, although a few runs down TR would have been fun on opening day, I really appreciated getting Showcase open early for those long early season leg burns as I built my ski legs back.

As far as grooming goes, you never know what the grooming strategy earlier this week was, I was not there to ask. I suspect they were thinking about how best to prepare for the rain and protect the base.

As someone who can ski anywhere at Gore, I enjoy the cruisers on the lower mountain as much as nicely bumped up Chat. Rumor is fun when the conditions are good but I don't feel like I have ot ski it all the time. My MO is to ski where the snow is good and sometimes the best trail on the mountain is Little Dipper.

Harvey44 wrote

classic

Classic = argument/disagreement/discussion between intermediate and expert point of view on conditions and grooming.

IMO Gore has strong constituents among both audiences.