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Harvey wrote

I'm realizing I have no idea what socialism is.

It's easy, a socialist is anybody to the left of you. I totalitarian capitalist is anybody to the right of you and a genius is anybody who agrees with you.

PeeTex wrote

Harvey wrote

I'm realizing I have no idea what socialism is.

It's easy, a socialist is anybody to the left of you. I totalitarian capitalist is anybody to the right of you and a genius is anybody who agrees with you.

Um ok.

So Bernie actually CLAIMING to be a socialist is like him saying "yo bro you can't get left of me!"  Or like when the Republicans fight over who defunded planned parenthood more.

Coach Z wrote

Fox is right leaning but thier on air personalities admit to this compared to Racheal Maddow and Chris Matthews with thrill running up his leg that still claim to be journalists.

I don't know anyone who calls Maddow or Matthews journalists.  Do they themselves claim it?

Who are the journalists on the cable networks?  Hard to think of who they might be. Amanpour, Robertson? Who? Who on Fox?

Don Lemon is the worst.

Harvey wrote

Who are the journalists on the cable networks?

This is a great question.  In my opinion, none of them are journalists.  They are now considered "on air personalities"  They are more there for entertainment.  They're like puppets preaching their corporate backer's message.  In some cases, they seem more like eye candy.

nepa wrote

Harvey wrote

Who are the journalists on the cable networks?

This is a great question.  In my opinion, none of them are journalists.  They are now considered "on air personalities"  They are more there for entertainment.  They're like puppets preaching their corporate backer's message.  In some cases, they seem more like eye candy.

They are definitely entertainers.

In Fox's defense: I heard a study on Freakonomics a few years ago where someone figured out it actually isn't the murdoch's of the world that dictate the content, but it's what the audience actually wants to hear. So people who watch FN or MSNBC (i watch neither) are content to be in their own echo chamber precisely because they already agree with the content, and the networks (and papers) are happy with the repeat business.

Of course, the average Fox News watcher has the nuanced intelligence of a sixth grader, but that's OT.

Anyway, about Zinn: I read People's History after college. It had some interesting nuggets as I remember, I never said it was the iron clad truth of the country. That text doesn't exist. One thing that I did find interesting about it as that we all live equally valid and separate objective realities that define the world around us. It takes some empathy to realize that the color of your lens is not the same color as everyone else's, but it's hard to keep that in mind for us all.

A journalist is someone who prints something that someone doesn't want printed. Everyone else is just PR.

Whoever said roads and the military aren't socialist discounted the fact that socialism is also "public control" of an entity. So yes, the military and public roads are socialist (i.e. You don't have to pay someone directly to drive on the road in front of your house or protect you from threats). And I don't know if you're familiar with pay grades and promotions in the military, but read this:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/21/troops-of-the-uniform-unite-the-military-is-a-socialist-paradise.html

Yes, PeeTex is right that a lot of people define socialism as anything to the left of themselves, but really, most of the cool things in America (the Internet, NASA, the interstate highway system), are "socialist" enterprises.

ml242 wrote

Anyway, about Zinn: I read People's History after college. It had some interesting nuggets as I remember, I never said it was the iron clad truth of the country. That text doesn't exist. One thing that I did find interesting about it as that we all live equally valid and separate objective realities that define the world around us. It takes some empathy to realize that the color of your lens is not the same color as everyone else's, but it's hard to keep that in mind for us all.

Yes, this is what I get out of it. I like hearing from every corner of opinion. I also read "The Corner" on National Review, and shuffle between Sirius Patriot (Glen Beck and Hannity) and Sirius Left (Thom Hartmann and Michaelangelo Signorele) on the radio. I like to hear all opinions, and fall on the side of: treat people like fucking people, be excellent to each other, and party on, dude.

Chris Matthews absolutely thinks of himself as a journalist.  His prized achievement is the Tom Borcaw Jourlism award.

Harv

This is the best and simplest video explaining what socialism is.  To paraphrases its goal is to even out everyone's wealth by taxation and because of that it lowers the mean wealth for everyone due to human nature.

<nabble_embed>http://youtu.be/3h8O7V-WxWQ</nabble_embed>

http://youtu.be/3h8O7V-WxWQ

Harv the embed code no longer is available on u tube on iPad

Harvey wrote

then who owns the roads in the US?

Seriously ? You don't know ? The Roadrunner, duh.

Harvey wrote

I have no idea what socialism is.

Ok, let me give you an example.

The fact that you sent $12 to Bernie for a haircut and none to Donald Trump who has the worst hair ever, clearly shows that you're a left winger with a socialistic agenda.

PeeTex wrote

Both left and right practice revisionist history, I don't waist my time with either.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/07/lies-the-debunkers-told-me-how-bad-history-books-win-us-over/260251/

I took the time to read this garbage and it didn't debunk anything in either book like I was hoping for. Here's a quote from the Zinn book that I found very appropriate today:

I'd be pretty pissed off too if I spent serious time reading that crap

Harvey wrote

I thought I had banned lingerlonger, but I guess I didn't.  He did have sort of a graceful exit as I recall.

As I recall, he was on the spam list right next to Powder Assassin, until the spam list was hidden from anyone being able to view it.  Maybe you remember putting him on the spam list and thought you banned him.

Whatever.  I guess words, terms and economic ideologies mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean (or whatever I read 3 minutes ago at the Daily Beast).  To hell with disciplines, nomenclature and meaningful dialogue; We'll all just stand in our subjective little bubbles and shout nonsense at one another.

For sure. At least until it snows

Coach Z wrote

I'd be pretty pissed off too if I spent serious time reading that crap

Okay, but can't you see it happening now? Like, Trump and Bernie will fade out, their ideas will be watered down and co-opted by the Republican and Democratic parties respectively, Clinton or Bush (or Rubio) will be elected, and the status quo will continue, with the rich, big business and government colluding to make life miserable for a lot of people in this country. New wars will be fought, more CO2 will be pumped into the atmosphere, more species will die, and life will go on.

Listen, I know it's easy to be fine with the status quo. I'm doing fine, personally, and I can't really complain about how life is going for me. I ski, I play golf, I don't get hassled by police, I'm not affected personally by wars, I make a good living, I have something to work toward, I don't have a (really) dangerous job, I get paid well, I take vacations, etc. But I'm one of the lucky ones. I guess I could just sit back and not give a shit about people who aren't in my position (or actively hate on those people like Republicans do), but I just feel like treating people the way I'd want to be treated is a basic idea that we should all try for.

mattchuck2 wrote

 

Yea, but we had the Bill of Rights. This empowered the people. Soon the gov't suppression mentioned above was totally defeated. Workers rights grew, spread and are now enshrined by that very same goverment's laws.

U S A !    U S A !    U S A !

So a video from youtube user "conservidio" is supposed to be a non-biased definition of socialism is?  That portrayal of the presidents is so partisan and completely inane garbage.

NYskier wrote

Whatever.  I guess words, terms and economic ideologies mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean (or whatever I read 3 minutes ago at the Daily Beast).  To hell with disciplines, nomenclature and meaningful dialogue; We'll all just stand in our subjective little bubbles and shout nonsense at one another.

Listen man, I'm just going by the Wikipedia definition:

Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership and/or social control[1] of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy,[2][3] as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.[4][5] "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership (achieved by nationalization), citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these.[6]

And it has a citation, so it must be true!!

(Sarcasm emoticon)

mattchuck2 wrote

or actively hate on those people like Republicans do.

  Oh shut the fuck up you immature little punk.  That would be insulting if it weren't so fucking stupid.  

Do you want to have a conversation or a fuckin' temper tantrum?

"Means of production".  Read your own quote.  Good grief.  I think that's what's called being hoisted on your own petard.